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  • NJ and Old Rail Rights of Way

  • Discussion relating to the Delaware, Lackawanna & Western, the Erie, and the resulting 1960 merger creating the Erie Lackawanna. Visit the Erie Lackawanna Historical Society at http://www.erielackhs.org/.
Discussion relating to the Delaware, Lackawanna & Western, the Erie, and the resulting 1960 merger creating the Erie Lackawanna. Visit the Erie Lackawanna Historical Society at http://www.erielackhs.org/.

Moderator: blockline4180

 #426833  by HSSRAIL
 
Boonton Line
In case it is not apparent. I view the severing of the Boonton Line
to be a bit of a disaster in terms of the long term effects it has had on
the cut-off and rail service in Northern Morris County. The grades on the Boonton Line including the portion now covered by Route 80 between Towata and Paterson did not exceed 1% this comes from track profiles. In fact Boonton Line Grades do not exceed 1% from Hoboken thru to Denville.

The Greenwood Lake Line has a maximum of 2.37 % between Montclair Heights and Little Falls though the 2.37% is only for a short distance most of the Grade is between 1% and 1.2 %. There is a 2.5% between Mountain Avenue and Upper Montclair. Insofar as elevating 2 lanes of route 80 as being unsightly I would say a mono-rail is unsightly as well and I might add more expensive and considerably more useless alas I digress. What I have accomplished here is to show conclusively that the Greenwood Lake line with or without catenary is poor as a through freight route which is what I set out to do. At the time of abandonment New Jersey did have a department of Rail Transportation it was a division of the State Highway Department opinions from the State level at the time are sketchy, the communities of Montclair and Bloomfield did complain about thru freights being rerouted to the Greenwood Lake Line and Commuters protested to the State PUC about this abandonment. The state of New Jersey was aware that the proposed severing of the Boonton Line was unnecessary and that it would lenghten trips from Morris County on the Erie-Lackawanna to Hoboken. The state knew the Greenwood Lake line would also result in downgrading freight capacity via EL's Scranton Line as the railroad signed an agreement to limit freights to 4 a day via the Greenwood Lake detour. I accuse the state people of lacking foresight in permitting EL to go forward with this abandonment. The abandonment and combining of the Boonton Line with the Greenwood Lake Line resulted in the downgrading of service on the Greenwood Lake Line north of Mountain View. Only 2 trains went through from Wanaque to Hoboken after the combination. Most riders drove to Mountain View to take advantage of the better schedules offered there, the Railroad Department in its decison to not subsidize service on EL north of Mountain View noted this development but were silent on the fact that EL had downgraded service north of Mountain View and why they stated existing ridership at the time of the study did not warrant continued service.

Greenwood Lake Line
The state made no efforts that I can see to rail bank the line north of Mountain View. The Caldwell Line right of way has also been lost. Feeble efforts were made to save that right of way. The state does not appear to be taking steps to save the right of way East of Montclair.

Erie Mainline NY State
The portion of the Mainline thru Middletown is becoming a trail much of it has already been opened. I don't know of a single trail on former EL right of way in New Jersey.

Northern Branch
A walking trail has been made on the New York State Portion thru Sparkill.
The line is in tact and operated by CSXT to the NJ state border.

Erie Mainline Downtown Passaic
The State Division of Railroad Transportation mentioned in its report that the Passaic Grade Crossing Elimination project should really be considered an abandonment. They further stated that ridership on the segment eliminated was substantial and was a loss to mass transit in New Jersey. No efforts that I know of were or are being made to railbank this right of way either.

In summary the historical record of New Jersey on rail transit in my opinion is not very good. The state has failed miserably in saving rights of way for future transit projects when rail service has been abandoned.
 #426863  by washingtonsecondary
 
HSSRAIL wrote:Boonton Line
In case it is not apparent. I view the severing of the Boonton Line
to be a bit of a disaster in terms of the long term effects it has had on
the cut-off and rail service in Northern Morris County. The grades on the Boonton Line including the portion now covered by Route 80 between Towata and Paterson did not exceed 1% this comes from track profiles. In fact Boonton Line Grades do not exceed 1% from Hoboken thru to Denville.

The Greenwood Lake Line has a maximum of 2.37 % between Montclair Heights and Little Falls though the 2.37% is only for a short distance most of the Grade is between 1% and 1.2 %. There is a 2.5% between Mountain Avenue and Upper Montclair. Insofar as elevating 2 lanes of route 80 as being unsightly I would say a mono-rail is unsightly as well and I might add more expensive and considerably more useless alas I digress. What I have accomplished here is to show conclusively that the Greenwood Lake line with or without catenary is poor as a through freight route which is what I set out to do. At the time of abandonment New Jersey did have a department of Rail Transportation it was a division of the State Highway Department opinions from the State level at the time are sketchy, the communities of Montclair and Bloomfield did complain about thru freights being rerouted to the Greenwood Lake Line and Commuters protested to the State PUC about this abandonment. The state of New Jersey was aware that the proposed severing of the Boonton Line was unnecessary and that it would lenghten trips from Morris County on the Erie-Lackawanna to Hoboken. The state knew the Greenwood Lake line would also result in downgrading freight capacity via EL's Scranton Line as the railroad signed an agreement to limit freights to 4 a day via the Greenwood Lake detour. I accuse the state people of lacking foresight in permitting EL to go forward with this abandonment. The abandonment and combining of the Boonton Line with the Greenwood Lake Line resulted in the downgrading of service on the Greenwood Lake Line north of Mountain View. Only 2 trains went through from Wanaque to Hoboken after the combination. Most riders drove to Mountain View to take advantage of the better schedules offered there, the Railroad Department in its decison to not subsidize service on EL north of Mountain View noted this development but were silent on the fact that EL had downgraded service north of Mountain View and why they stated existing ridership at the time of the study did not warrant continued service.

Greenwood Lake Line
The state made no efforts that I can see to rail bank the line north of Mountain View. The Caldwell Line right of way has also been lost. Feeble efforts were made to save that right of way. The state does not appear to be taking steps to save the right of way East of Montclair.

Erie Mainline NY State
The portion of the Mainline thru Middletown is becoming a trail much of it has already been opened. I don't know of a single trail on former EL right of way in New Jersey.

Northern Branch
A walking trail has been made on the New York State Portion thru Sparkill.
The line is in tact and operated by CSXT to the NJ state border.

Erie Mainline Downtown Passaic
The State Division of Railroad Transportation mentioned in its report that the Passaic Grade Crossing Elimination project should really be considered an abandonment. They further stated that ridership on the segment eliminated was substantial and was a loss to mass transit in New Jersey. No efforts that I know of were or are being made to railbank this right of way either.

In summary the historical record of New Jersey on rail transit in my opinion is not very good. The state has failed miserably in saving rights of way for future transit projects when rail service has been abandoned.
Most of the people who made these agreements years ago are dead. What is your point?
 #426901  by henry6
 
In addition, not only are those who made these arrangements gone, so are the circumstances that brought them about. Frieght...long distance, main line, through frieght trains...will no longer polish these rails for a myriad of reasons. Plus with today's locomotives over 4000hp, welded rail, lighter weight (and bilevel) cars, etc., grades are not as much a problem (especially if you are passenger rather than freight) unless a station is on a bad grade. Progress made changes back in the 60's, 70's and 80's and progress will make changes again in 2010, 2020, etc. You can't blame anyone for the need for progress today, just those who cannot grasp the fact that there has to be progress.
 #426937  by CAR_FLOATER
 
[quote="HSSRAIL"]Boonton Line
I don't know of a single trail on former EL right of way in New Jersey.
[/quote]

Huh? Well technically, there is no rail trail on ANY EL ROW, in the way you are looking at things, but rather only ex-DL&W or Erie rail trails.

And last time I checked, the Sussex Branch (former DL&W) is a rail trail, and in New Jersey. Also, I thought parts of the Caldwell and Greenwood Lake branches, in the vacinity of Little Falls and Wayne respectfully, were legit rail trails (former Erie), though I could be mistaken.

So like Henry said, what's the point here?

CF

 #427023  by jmp883
 
Car Floater wrote:
Also, I thought parts of the Caldwell and Greenwood Lake branches, in the vacinity of Little Falls and Wayne respectfully, were legit rail trails (former Erie), though I could be mistaken.
Not in Wayne. I'm a dispatcher for Wayne Police (10 of the 15 years I've been a dispatcher) and there is no rail trail in Wayne that I'm aware of. Even if the Greenwood Lake ROW isn't overgrown north of the Boonton Line connection there is a tent village in the woods along the tracks. Those 'residents' are not to be toyed with. They are periodically 'swept' out of that area but they invariably return. They usually keep to themselves...usually.

Being a Wanaque resident since 1973 I won't even comment on the abandonment of the Greenwood Lake Line. It would have been nice if the line was never abandoned but nobody has the kind of foresight to see how the Wanaque end of the line developed. Needless to say, with the opening of I-287 and the extensive residential development of Wanaque, Ringwood, and West Milford there is a definite need for a second way in and out of upper Passaic County besides just Ringwood Avenue (County Rt 511). The Greenwood Lake Line could have been that outlet.

 #427169  by CAR_FLOATER
 
Thanks Joe......

That's good to know, just in case I ever got around to walking the ROW and the canal feeder ROW.

CF

 #470679  by Penn Central
 
Northern Branch:
The town of Orangetown has expanded the rail trail considerably. It now extends from the NJ/NY state line to Sparkill, where it branches along the old wye to go west to Blauvelt over a new bridge that spans Route 303. The east leg of the wye goes north to Piermont and Nyack. It is a hikers delight. I have some photos of Sparkill at:

http://piercehaviland.com/gallery/thumb ... p?album=36

A CSX switcher working the northern end of the Northern can be seen at:

http://piercehaviland.com/gallery/thumb ... p?album=41

 #502995  by HSSRAIL
 
Just this.

In the 1960's New Jersey had a bad record on rail transit.