NH Maine Passenger Service (with B&M/MEC/PRR/NYC)

The State of Maine was a passenger express operated jointly by the B&M and the NH from 1913 - 1960. Although by most accounts it was not considered a "crack" train for the NH, it was arguably one of the more important passenger services that the B&M operated in the "golden era" of passenger rail service in the United States as this was the sole year round through train to New York City from Maine. A great deal of the train's history takes place on New Haven rails to include multiple route changes over the years. As such I felt it appropriate to open a thread in the NH forum for specific discussion of this train. I am also interested in the historical perspective of this operation as has been discussed elsewhere in relation to possible future service NYP-POR.

As usual Mr. VanBokkelen's summary provides a nice starting point:

State of Maine

The State of Maine provided overnight service between Grand Central in New York and Portland, ME via Worcester, MA, Lowell and Dover, NH. When service began in 1913, it ran NH to Springfield, B&A to Worcester and then via Lowell and Lawrence. By the mid-1920s it had been re-routed to run via New London and Putnam on the old Norwich & Worcester. By 1952, it reached Worcester via Providence, RI, which continued until service ended in October 1960. It always carried GCT - Portland sleepers, and through 1958, a GCT - Concord or Plymouth NH car as well. At times, one of the sleepers continued on to Bangor, ME.

The July 1952 consist was:

New York (GCT) - Portland: 14R-4DB (NH lw); 12-1; 14-4 (NH lw); 1dr-2cpt-3sb-buffet-lounge (Shore Lark/Meadow Lark)
New York (GCT) - Portland: 10 sect-1DR-2CPT; 10 sect-1DR-2CPT (Eastbound Fri., Westbound Sun.)
New York (GCT) - Concord, NH: 8 section-5 single-bedroom (except Sat.)

After the arrival of the last lightweight sleepers in 1955, the consist looked like this: the B&M supplied a 6-section, 4-double-bedroom, 6-roomette sleeper NYC - Concord via Lowell, and another for NYC - Portland, but the NY,NH&H handled the other side of those trips, and added its own 6-4-6s, 14-4s, and a 6db-buffet-lounge to the NYC - Portland service. Pictures from 1959 and 1960 show the NH supplying the coaches (from the 8600 stainless-sheathed lightweight series), and that most of the head-end equipment was also likely to be NH. The March 1985 Bulletin says that NH steam locomotives ran through to Portland, but the only photographic evidence I've seen dates to the early 1930s. However, MEC steam and diesel power often ran into Worcester, MA.

[EDIT: I have changed the topic name in order to accommodate discussion of the Bar Harbor Express and the East Wind which I anticipated somewhat but not along the substantial lines of some of the posts made to the thread already. I also don't think it would serve the discussion well to require more than one topic for trains to and from Maine that traveled over the NH.

If the moderators have an issue please let me know. Since the topic is so new the "Edit" button was still available to me.]

First Question: Prior to the WWII era reroute (and after the routing was changed off the B&A) what was the exact routing of the train in Connecticut? Did it go through Groton and then onto Norwich?

Would love to be able to definitively answer that for you from first person experience but, alas, I don't go back quite that far. My first long-distance train trip was on the State of Maine as a youngster of 6 or 7 in 1948 or 1949 traveling NY (GCT) to Lewiston, ME to visit relatives. Unfortunately, we rode coach through the night, but I doubt that I slept any.

As I think I mentioned in similar threads on here, high on my bucket list is a future all-train trip from Palatka, FL to Lewiston, ME with no more than two (preferably only one) change of trains.

Will be checking in on this thread often.

Just realized that I have a 1933 MEC timetable to refer to, so maybe this helps (or not). State of Maine left GCT at 8:00 pm back then (I remember it as leaving at 9:00 pm -must have changed after the war), and made New Haven at 9:55, New London at 11:02, Norwich at 11:30, Putnam at 12:23 am, and Worcester at 1:25 am. Does that tell you anything?

The State of Maine's departure time from New York varied over the years. Don't forget that railroad timetables showed schedules in Standard Time rather than Daylight Time until the mid to late 40's and some railroads even much later than that. The State of Maine at various times ran via Norwich, Providence, Middletown and maybe Hartford as well. It ran on the Norwich Branch Effective with the timetable change of April 28, 1946 the route was changed from the Norwich Branch to operate via Providence. I suspect this might have had something to do with mail contracts as the New Haven handled a huge amount of mail in and out of Providence. It could have also been brought about but the heavy freight traffic on the Norwich Branch especially at night. The train made its last trip out of New York on October 29, 1960 when the Boston and Maine discontinued operation of this train between Worcester and Portland. At that time the train still handled both mail and express, the mail continued on this schedule as far as Providence where the train continued on to Boston again with mail. The express continued for some time to travel by rail to Portland in freight service between New Haven, Worcester and Portland. I did my share of joyriding on various passenger trains of the period and one day I went to Boston then to Portland from Boston on a Budd Car. Rather then return to Boston only to change stations and go back to New York I just took the State of Maine through Worcester and I think this was probably in its last month or two of operation.
Noel Weaver

Another interesting run was the joint Bar Harbor Express, which at one time, had sleepers all the way from Washington DC, Philly, NY etc to Bar Harbor. It was popular summer resort run. Families would even travel with steamer trunks on the train, and have their servants drive up their automobile for the summer. Routing pretty much followed the routes outlined above on NH during various time periods.

Brief Note: See Edit in the first post for discussion of topic name change. I used "NYC" instead of B&A. Although it is clear enough that the B&A was taken over by the New York Central in 1900 readily available information does not clarify when the B&A "disappeared" as a brand. As best as I can tell the B&A stopped being marketed as a separate railroad brand in 1914.

To the best of my knowledge the Boston and Albany/New York Central was not involved in the operation of the New York City - Maine passenger service at any time. The New Haven Railroad had a good connection at Worcester with the Boston and Maine, even better than the one in Springfield as it did not require a level crossing with the B & A and did not require any reverse moves either. This connection is still available in Worcester should passenger service ever again be operated between New York or Washington and Portland or beyond. Another thing, the Bar Harbor operated to Ellsworth, Maine where it was necessary to transfer to either a bus or a taxi for the remainder of the trip on to Bar Harbor. In later years the Bar Harbor was cut back to Bangor where a bus or taxi took you the rest of the way. The last trip of the Bar Harbor was in 1960 when the Maine Central ended all passenger service, the train lasted right up until the end.
Noel Weaver

To the best of my knowledge the Boston and Albany/New York Central was not involved in the operation of the New York City - Maine passenger service at any time.

"The Bar Harbor Express began in 1902 with its southern terminus in New York. Trains ran north to Springfield, Massachusetts over the New Haven, where they were handed off to the Boston and Albany Railroad (B&A), which carried them to Worcester. From Worcester the B&M hauled them to Union Station in Portland, Maine. From Portland the Maine Central hauled the cars to their final destinations in the northeast. The B&A withdrew early on, however, so the trains followed a purely New Haven routing from New York to Worcester."
'....from 1902 to the 1930s, the Bar Harbor Express provided the fastest train service from New York City to Mount Desert Ferry in Hancock Point."
Later was cut back to Ellsworth. My Father and grandparents well remember packing up 'for the summer' and taking the BHEx to the Ferry. Their auto was driven up separately.

I have public timetrables from both 1916 and 1921 and both timetables show the route of the Bar Harbor as an all New Haven route between New York and Worcester. Would you care to give the dates you claim this train ran on the B & A? It would have to be before 1916.
Noel Weaver

Noel Weaver wrote:I have public timetrables from both 1916 and 1921 and both timetables show the route of the Bar Harbor as an all New Haven route between New York and Worcester. Would you care to give the dates you claim this train ran on the B & A? It would have to be before 1916.
Noel Weaver

While it is by no means authoritative the State of Maine wiki indicates that the State of Maine was initially routed over the B&A from 19014 until the "mid-1920s".

Mr. VanBokkelen is the cited source of that particular passage.

As best as I can tell the B&A stopped being marketed as a separate railroad brand in 1914.

"Brand"??? It was the name of the railroad, not a "brand"!

Steam locomotives carried the Boston & Albany name right to the end of B&A steam in 1951. Public and employee timetables carried the railroad's name through the 1940s. The B&A also owned 11 Alco HH-600 diesels that bore the railroad's name, although dieselization was primarily accomplished with NYC units. The B&A lasted as an NYC subsidiary corporation into the early 1960s when it was finally merged into the parent company. As late as the 1960s there remained a handful of NYC System freight cars with B&A reporting marks.

gokeefe wrote:

Noel Weaver wrote:I have public timetrables from both 1916 and 1921 and both timetables show the route of the Bar Harbor as an all New Haven route between New York and Worcester. Would you care to give the dates you claim this train ran on the B & A? It would have to be before 1916.
Noel Weaver

While it is by no means authoritative the State of Maine wiki indicates that the State of Maine was initially routed over the B&A from 19014 until the "mid-1920s".

Mr. VanBokkelen is the cited source of that particular passage.

I tend to believe timetables of the period in question far more than "Wikipedia" when it comes to the route of this service and I have both timetables as well as a good number of employee timetables of this period. During this period the New Haven had four different routes that the State of Maine Express could utilize to move between New Haven and Worcester. They did not need to share revenue with another railroad to accomplish this and as well much additional cost with running on another railroad. All four of these routes were used at one time or another in its period of operation.
Noel Weaver

>>to Mount Desert Ferry in Hancock Point."
Later was cut back to Ellsworth.

Just as an FYI, it is fairly easy to follow the abandoned ROW from Washington Junction to the Mount Desert Ferry today. It weaves around US 1, forms the basis for a few local roads and driveways, and ends at a boat yard on the site of the old ferry slip.

PBM

Prior to consolidating all of its timetables into a single system folder about 1918, the B & M issued lots of divisional, suburban and through timetables. The Condensed Through Timetable covered some of the longer runs and touristy-vacationer runs on the B & M only and its connections to lots of off-line destinations. In Form ADV35, September 7, 1903, the New York to Maine service right to Mt. Desert Island runs New York to Springfield via New Haven, Boston & Albany to Worcester and Boston & Maine to Portland via Nashua Union Sta. and Rochester. In Form35, June 26, 1911, the same routing via Springfield and B & A to Worcester is shown; B & M routing from Ayer is over to Lowell, Lawrence and Portland. The train has an 8 pm New York departure time in both schedules (no Daylight Time then). The Condensed Through Timetable is about the thickness of the Amtrak timetables of the 1970s and 1980s.