New York, Westchester & Boston NYW&B Main Thread

[William Abbott]

Before you go to Springfield, take a look at item #6508328101 on eBay. It's the tape with the Westchester and the Putnam Division on it. Starts at $19.99, or you can buy it outright for $30.00. Sold by someone in New Jersey who apparently has a lot of them, as they appear every so often from him.

[Noel Weaver]

I, too, have an 8mm copy of the Frank Schlagel movie of the NYW&B. I
arranged for a cab ride for him back in my firing days on the NHRR and
knew him well from the Branford Trolley Museum years ago. Still have
the movie and have put it on tape as well.
I heard somebody say there was some Putnam Division stuff on the same
tape, could somebody please advise me as to what type of Putnam
Division stuff was/is on that particular tape?
The NYW&B movie shows the railroad when it was running, after it had
stopped running and was idle and finally while it was being scrapped.
Mostly B & W but some color also.
Frank had some copies of his movie made for friends as he told me that
Roger Arcara had one besides me.
Noel Weaver

[William Abbott]

Noel, the tape I mentioned on page two contains 11 minutes of scenes of two-car trains and a few shots of 4 steaming engines lined up in a yard. Also some shots at Dunwoodie (?). I am not familiar with the line so cannot say where any of the shots are.

Oddly enough, the Putnam section, which comes after the NYW&B on the video, ends with a view of a trolley car on a wide street. The street runs under a railroad grade with New Haven/Westchester style gantry towers. Soon a single car runs across the scene, but it is so fast and indistinct that I cannot tell what it is. I suspect it is Westchester, as I don't believe the New Haven ran single car MUT trains. I need to study that scene. Other folks are welcome to check it out and opine.

This tape does contain NYW&B operations (far too short), the neglected line full of weeds (especially a sad shot at Kingsbridge with a kincked rail), destruction, and then IRT operations with the old El cars as well as some newer ones.

Bill (I'm in North Palm Beach)

[Stillwell]

I heard somebody say there was some Putnam Division stuff on the same
tape, could somebody please advise me as to what type of Putnam
Division stuff was/is on that particular tape?

Noel Weaver

I watched my copy of the tape today- the first time in a long while. This is what I saw in order the order it appears on the tape:

(all footage is in color except where marked)
1. Steam-powered two car train in a wooded area. May be Tibbets Brook park in Yonkers or possibly Van Cortlandt park in the Bronx. (b&w)

2. Very quick view of Dunwoodie Station in Yonkers taken from other side of Yonkers Ave. bridge. (b&w)

3. Putnam yard along the Harlem River.

4. Steam-powered two car train passing over a small bridge over street traffic. I don't know the location.

5. Steam-powered two car train passing next to the lake in Van Cortlandt park.

6. Northbound train pulling into Grey Oaks station in Yonkers.

7,8, 9. Not sure of these locations.

10. Not sure. Might be Tibbets Brook park in Yonkers.

11. Northbound steam -powered train crossing over the bridge over the Cross County Parkway in Yonkers and pulling into Dunwoodie station.

12. Same tarin leaving Dunwoodie and crossing over Yonkers Ave. bridge.

13. View of the semaphore signals at Dunwoodie.

14. More views of Dunwoodie station

15. Freight cars being moved around at Dunwoodie.

16. Freight cars being moved over a bridge. I'm not sure, but I think this is the old bridge over Saw Mill River Road in Yonkers.

17. Grade crossing. Lacation unknown.

18. Passing steam-powered train passenger train. Location unknown.

19. Ardsley Station.

20. View from Macy Park in Ardsley. Northbound steam-powered two car train crossing over bridge just south of Woodlands Station.

21. Grade crossing at Tarrytown Road in Elmsford.

22. Somewhere on outskirts of Elmsford along the line going north towards Eastview.

23. Looking north toward Eastview Station. Southbond steam-powered passenger train pulls out of the station.

24. Unknown location

25. The bridge over the Croton resovoir.

26. Yorktown Station.

27. View of Yorktown yard.

28. View of steam locos at Yorktown yard.

29. Steam powered two car train sitting next to the water tower at Yorktown.

30. Diesel-powered freight train heading southbound over Yonkers Ave. bridge at Dunwoodie station. (b&w)

31. View of Dunwoodie station from across Yonkers Avenue. Trolley passes by under the bridge. Northbound steam passes over bridge. Another trolley passes under the bridge. (b&W)

That's all of the Put footage on that tape. There are a couple other videos out there that have small snippets of Put footage. I'll post the names as soon as I can compile a list.

BTW: I apologize for "hijacking" this NYW&B thread with Putnam Division talk.

Jon Shecter

[ANDY117]

Was the NYW&B the railroad that operated in millwood? Because there's an old station there.

[William Abbott]

Jon,

My NYW&B + Putnam has the shot I mentioned at the very end. I was able to freeze frame it and see what appears to be the end view of a typical NYW&B station on the right end of the bridge. The street and bridge are at about a 45 degree angle to each other. This means if the view is looking south, the road goes more from west to east, the railroad goes more or less southwest. I'll have to look at the shadows again to see if perhaps is looking north. So we have to try to determine where a major road, with a trolley, and the railway crossed at such an angle. I will attempt to take a digital photo of the scene.

Andy,

No, Millwood was not on the NYW&B. I suspect it was on the Putnam division of the NYC. The NYW&B did not get farther north than White Plains.

[ANDY117]

Ohh, ok. Thanks! I was just wondering because when i go to my Grandmother's in Chappaqua (no it's not Hilary, thank God) we always pass by it. The former Mainline is now a rail trail.

[Otto Vondrak]

Andy, check out our web site for more information. The site includes a map of the former route and some photos of the line in operation.

www.nywbry.com

-otto-

[Noel Weaver]

Thanks for the information.
I, too, have movies of the Putnam Division, the last day it operated for
passenger service in May, 1958. I rode the last trains and got loads of
8 mm movies mostly from the last car but a little from the ground up too.
Hard to believe it was so many years ago. I was young then.
Noel Weaver

[Stillwell]

Jon,

My NYW&B + Putnam has the shot I mentioned at the very end. I was able to freeze frame it and see what appears to be the end view of a typical NYW&B station on the right end of the bridge. The street and bridge are at about a 45 degree angle to each other. This means if the view is looking south, the road goes more from west to east, the railroad goes more or less southwest. I'll have to look at the shadows again to see if perhaps is looking north. So we have to try to determine where a major road, with a trolley, and the railway crossed at such an angle. I will attempt to take a digital photo of the scene.

Andy,

No, Millwood was not on the NYW&B. I suspect it was on the Putnam division of the NYC. The NYW&B did not get farther north than White Plains.

Bill,

I have that scene you mention on the end of my NYW&B/Put Division tape also. I ALSO have it on a trolley DVD I bought recently. The footage on the DVD is a little longer. There are a cople of scenes of the same trolley on it's way toward the bridge on other streets. It even rolls right past the cameraman at one point. Then you see the trolley under the bridge making it's way toward the camera and stop. The conductor gets out to reverse the trolley poles and the trolley starts back toward the bridge. When it get close to the bridge you see the single NYW&B mu go over the bridge. I'm not sure which station it is. The trolley has no route designation letter on it. I've tried going frame by frame but I couldn't clearly read the destination board over the front window. I could swear the board says Westchester. I could make out "west". This could be "Westchester Ave.", "West Farms Square", etc. I checked my Third Ave. Railway book but that didn't help much either. Oh well. For now it's a mystery.

To answer Andy's question:

Millwood was a stop on the Putnam Division. The station building is still there. I went to take a close look at it about a year ago. I took some pictures of it. I have to scan them. The station is in pretty good shape. The thing that bothered me when I saw it was that there was ice on the floor inside the building. That means it has a roof leak. Who knows what else may be wrong with it. I don't know who owns it but it didn't look like they're even bothering to take care of it. It would be a shame to lose that building. It's one of only four Put stations that are still standing.

Interesting note about the building: It was originally located in Briarcliff and was moved up the line to Millwood around 1909(?). The station building that replaced it is now the Briarcliff public library.


Jon

[Otto Vondrak]

Would anyone like to write a review of the new NYWB book for this web site? We would like an honest appraisal of the book (it's good traits and its faults), in about 800 words or so. Any takers? Please contact me off-list.

-otto-

[William Abbott]

While searching for NYW&B items I was led to a site called: www.trainweb.org/rmig/index_2004.htm

In it I saw "Arcara, Roger, video, 2619". Has anyone any idea what this means and if Roger had a video???? That's an underline between index and 2004.

Regarding the unidentified location which is the last bit of the NYW&B video, as above from STILLWELL.
1. The size of the gantry tower indicates this is a 4 track section.
2. There are essentially no shadows, meaning the sun was high in the sky.
3. The sunlight reflects strongly of the end partition of the covering over the station platform. The platform ends before the highway bridge.
4. The ROW comes from the left and crosses to the right at about a 40-45 degree angle with the road.
5. The road is very wide and has a trolley line on it. The road goes under the tracks. The bridge seems to have 3 spans.
6. Being a 4 track section, it is south of Columbus Avenue.
7. Since the road goes UNDER the track, it can only be one of these stations: Kingsbridge, Dyre, Baychester or 180th Street.
8. It can't be Kingsbridge as the road and track are at nearly at right angles.
9. It can't be Dyre because East 233rd Road is not wide enough.
10. It isn't 180th Street as the road and track are at right angels.
11. That leave Baychester.
12. Based on the sun hitting the platform end, the view is looking northwest up Baychester.

Could anyone go there and get a picture? It is taken from the west side of Baychester, if that is the road. Thanks a lot for your contribution to NYW&B history.

[bizzbag]

I've been staring at that shot as well. I came to the same logical conclusion as Bill, except 2 things bother me.
1) Can't see the signal tower - I could overlook that as maybe angle.
2) In the picture of Baychester looking North in 1912 as identified by Roger Arcara in 'When the Westchester Was New", there is an anchor bridge (at least a different type gantry tower) right at the end of the bridge before the station. This does not appear to be in the picture.

This picture definitely screams "Bronx'.


Craig

[bizzbag]

Bill,
Did you mean looking southeast from the west side? - that would make a lot of sense

Craig

[William Abbott]

Craig, Jon and anyone else observing.

After observing close-up aerial views I can see that I out Sherlock'd Sherlock Holmes in my deductions. The view is looking southeast, not northwest.

The photo in "When the Westchester Was New" (page 113 of 3rd edition) makes it appear that the bridge over East 222nd (in the forground) and the bridge over Baychester (beyond) are only about 100 feet apart. Actually from the aerial views they are about 579 yards apart. Therefore this picture was taken with a big tele-photo lens, foreshortening the whole view.

The aerial view shows no remains of the signal tower or its foundation.

Does anyone have the capacity to create a decent still photo from this video or the original film?

Bill Abbott