• New York, Westchester & Boston NYW&B Main Thread

  • Discussion relating to the NH and its subsidiaries (NYW&B, Union Freight Railroad, Connecticut Company, steamship lines, etc.). up until its 1969 inclusion into the Penn Central merger. This forum is also for the discussion of efforts to preserve former New Haven equipment, artifacts and its history. You may also wish to visit www.nhrhta.org for more information.
Discussion relating to the NH and its subsidiaries (NYW&B, Union Freight Railroad, Connecticut Company, steamship lines, etc.). up until its 1969 inclusion into the Penn Central merger. This forum is also for the discussion of efforts to preserve former New Haven equipment, artifacts and its history. You may also wish to visit www.nhrhta.org for more information.
  by oakpoint
 
Otto:

My friend and I were inside Kingsbridge station in 1974 all the way over to the Dyre Ave. bound side. Sorry to say there were no turnstiles or anything else associated with our Westchester. Some rubble here and there but thats about it.
Also, we were inside East Third street station again with very little to be reconizable associated with the Westchester.

Here's something that may interest you Otto. The bridge in front of East Third street station has a small road to the left of it going down to track level. If you go there next time, at the bottom of the hill, look to your right and you can see under the bridge an insulator for the overhead wires stiil attached to the concrete under the bridge. That would be the local Colombus Ave. side. No one ever bothered to remove it and it sits there all these years wondering what happened to all those wonderful trains that used to pass beneath it. I know it is very lonely there all by it self. It's sad, isn't it ! :(

I passed by the Sixth street station (Sanford Blvd.) in 1974 just before "THEY" tore it down.

Charles D :-)
  by fordhamroad
 
This would be a nice idea. Aside from web contact, there might be one major activity a year: A gathering to share pictures and models, perhaps a showing of the Frank Schlegel film, or a talk on some aspect of the Westchester. Or it might take the form of a tour up the line to see remnants. or both, an afternoon tour, an evening gathering?
How many would be interested in a late spring get together some Saturday? Ideas on what to do, or where to meet (hopefully in NYW&B territory) Another possibility would be to piggyback a NYW&B gathering on a related group, such as a session at the New Haven Annual Reunion.
Bill Abbot- nice to hear from you. I will try and check out that house in Mt. Vernon. Best wishes
Roger Wines

  by bizzbag
 
Thanks Oakpoint. I was wondering about the extent of missing scenes - seems minimal, but I sure would like to see them. I've also been wondering if a professional transfer from original 8mm to DVD would be a big improvement on the VCR version.

Great that so many of you actually knew Arcara, Tolley, Schlegel, etc. and got such great personal info and remembrances.

Great also that so many that have no direct connection still want to keep it going.

I remember driving on Fulton Ave in Mt Vernon with my father in the early '50s and being fascinated with the big open space and the high bluffs under Franklin Ave. My dad told me that was the "o-o-o-o-old Westchester and Boston". I had no idea it went to NY, because he never said NY, Westchester and Boston. I always wondered what kind of nut would build a railroad from Mt Vernon to Boston - like how many people a day commute from Westchester to Boston? - I figured no wonder it went broke. It wasn't until years later that I got the real story.

Craig P

Craig P
  by oakpoint
 
Roger:

The original 8mm movie reel were only in two peoples pocession as far as I know and they were Frank Schlegel, Roger Arcara and myself. My copy disappeared, Hmmp, after my divorce. Of course Mr. Schlegel passed on along with roger. It seems to me that a copy should have survived some where ?

Craig:

Frank Schlegel was an old school gentleman complete with a wonderful personality, dignity and vested suit with bow tie. He was a pleasure to meet and know. I also knew Al Gilcher and obtained some pictures from his own collection, also lost to me with my 8mm movie and employee hat badge. (Oh death, where is thy sting)

I sure like the idea of getting together in warmer weather some day for a little stroll down memory lane so to speak.

Charlse D :wink:
  by silmarg
 
Anyone have some information about the Pehamwood Station? I've seen it refered to as Pelhamwood, Storer and Clifford. Anyone have the story behind all the aliases?

Also, a colleague of mine on the Pelham Historians Roundtable has some information re: some court cases that ensued between some landholders in Pelham Manor and an affiliate of NYW&B after they decided to swich the route to North Pelham.

  by Otto Vondrak
 
Posted by Bill Abbott: Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:18 pm    Post subject: Various
------------------------------------------------------------------------
WATER TOWER near 3rd St. Station:
Thanks, Silmarg, for checking this out. Since the pictures are about 95 years old one would expect that some of the less substantial buildings would be gone. I never really studied the angle of the picture viz-aviz 3rd Street, but now I can see it more clearly. If you will send me your email address I will send you a close up of a 1930 hand-colored real estate map which clearly shows the tracks, station, and Howe Park, which has paths indicated and a circle which might be the tower, or maybe just a flower bed. Can send to anyone.

VIDEO
The thought of seeing even a small additional clip of the video is exciting, as the scenes are all too short. Still we must be happy for the bits we have. Has anyone checked with the people in Vermont who still sell this video as to the whereabouts of the originals, or if they have a film copy.

As to making a DVD of it, that would be great, but I fear that if the quality is not there in the original you may not be able to enhance it very much. There is a man on the recent emails address lists who works at this sort of thing, but obviously I cannot commit him.

VIDEO SCENES
I have made a list of what I believe each scene to be and would gladly share it and compare notes with anyone. It would be rather lengthy to put on this site.

ANOTHER VIDEO
There is another video showing a minimal amount of NYW&B stuff, about 2 minutes worth. Mostly a car passing by, the tower at Port Chester, the Port Chester Station and end of track. It is called "Memories of the New Haven" and is sold by Mark I Video, P.O. Box 404, New Milford, NJ, phone 800-66-MARK-1. Frank Schlegel is in the credits.

KINGSWOOD STATION
The USGS aerial photos of the area (see http://terraserver-usa.com) shows a small extension of the south end of St. Paul's Place toward the west side of the station. Does this really exist? Seems to appear also on my Westchester County map, which is a bit unclear at that point. Is it possible to get into the station, whatever remains of it now, by going past the southernmost house? A past experience at Storer Ave. tells me folks there are not too keen on people walking around near their homes, even if not trepassing on their property. Very suspicious!

Anyone have recent pictures of Kingswood Station?

The only pictures I have seen are from street level. Is it possible to get up high across the street (south side) and shoot a picture across Kingswood?

Are there any remains of the abutment that must have existed north of Kingswood Station crossing South 3rd Avenue?

INSULATOR
I have a friend's picture of the lonely insulator at East 3rd Street. With his permission I send it to anyone who will give me his email address. I have no way of getting it on a web site.

WEBSTER AVENUE - North
I have a photo which I believe to be a part of the old bridge/abutment on the east side of the road. If someone thinks they can verify it, I'll send a jpg of it. Where did they get all the dirt to fill in the big cut there.

Well, that's enough for now. Thanks for your help. We all learn.

Bill Abbott

  by Stillwell
 
Otto Vondrak wrote:Posted by Bill Abbott: Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:18 pm    Post subject: Various
------------------------------------------------------------------------

KINGSWOOD STATION

Anyone have recent pictures of Kingswood Station?

The only pictures I have seen are from street level. Is it possible to get up high across the street (south side) and shoot a picture across Kingswood?

Are there any remains of the abutment that must have existed north of Kingswood Station crossing South 3rd Avenue?

INSULATOR
I have a friend's picture of the lonely insulator at East 3rd Street. With his permission I send it to anyone who will give me his email address. I have no way of getting it on a web site.

WEBSTER AVENUE - North
I have a photo which I believe to be a part of the old bridge/abutment on the east side of the road. If someone thinks they can verify it, I'll send a jpg of it. Where did they get all the dirt to fill in the big cut there.
I have a few "high level" pics of E. Kingsbridge Rd. station taken from across the street.

http://pak02.pictures.aol.com/NASApp/yg ... cale=en_US

They're not exactly recent. They were taken back in 1989. They are views of the northbound and southbound sides. You'll notice that there an abandoned late 1940's Chrysler sitting in the middle of the roadbed. You can't miss it, it's been painted bright yellow. I've been told that the car is no longer there. I don't know if that's true.
The roadbed on the south side of the street is now used as a parking lot. It's been paved and a concrete cantenary tower footing sits at the edge of the pavement. There's a yellow arrow pointing to it in one of the pictures. The parking lot has a gate at the street level entrance. You may not be able to get in there now. Tresspass at your own risk. :wink: I don't think the gate was there in 1989. The pics were taken on Sunday morning and the office building adjacent to the parking lot was closed.

I have a "fuzzy" pic of the 3rd Street insulator. I have a better pic of the insulator that was on the Hutchison River Parkway bridge. That pic was also taken in 1989 while they were in the process of tearing the brige down. I haven't posted those pics yet.

There is most definately a small piece if the bridge abutment on Prince St. east of Webster Ave. It's sitting in front of somebody's house next to their driveway. I posted that pic along with the other on the link above. The dirt to fill in the cut may have come from the roadbed that used to exist between Prince Street and North Ave station. It's all been flattened out in this area. Just a theory.

So when are we all getting together to share pics, stories, etc.?

Jon
  by fordhamroad
 
Discussion of Frank Schlegel's film of the NYW&B-

-when was it shot?

-I saw Roger Arcara's copy of the film twice, once during one of his periodic railfan movie evenings (which I miss). Roger usually showed several films, and provided his own interpretive commentary as they were screened. The second time was at a ceremony held at the New Rochelle Library, on the occasion of the rebuilding/restoration of New Rochelle station. Not long before he died, Roger began issuing video versions of his various film programs, and the NYW&B film was on one of these.
-subsequently, another version of the Schlegel film surfaced on a VHS by another rail video producer.

-are the video versions all the same?

-do the video versions contain all of the Schlegel film?

-it was a short little film, not a slick as some of the stuff produced nowadays, but as far as I know, it was the only one ever made of the NYW&B. A fine film, and I am happy to view it.

-in recent years, the New Haven RR Historical & Technical Society has edited and issued several amateur film makers footage of New Haven lines.

-Suppose we could get the Schlegel film, plus narrated still shots, put together to make a coherent history and portrait of the NYWB, somewhat in the manner of the History Channel. Now there would be another fine film.

Roger
  by oakpoint
 
Frank Schlegel shot his movie just prior to the closing of the Westchester. As to the exact date I doubt if any one can provide this information. I will say that he shot it while the Port Chester branch was still in service so it was probably earlier in the year.

Having had the original 8mm movie given to me personaly by Mr. Schlegel, I can tell you it was a mere 15 minutes long (or short) and I would think that all of the original footage should have been incorporated into any reproductions. I do know as I stated previously on an earlier post that on my VHS copy of the movie I don't see the clip where the train is going through Pelhamwood station. I can say that the shot was a express as it did not appear to slow down for the station.

Otto:

I wonder if you are aware of the only Anchor bridge still standing complete with signals and still standing under the Cross Bronx Expressway at West Farms complete with a little bit of the four track mainline or what is left of it as it came down the hill from 180th St. station. When the vandals finished removing the rest of the viaduct from 180 St. they stopped at the Cross Bronx Expressway.

Charles D " NYW&B FOREVER" :(
  by William Abbott
 
To clarify what videos we are talking about, here are mine.

1. "Westchester's Lost Railways". Covers the NYW&B and the NYC Putnam Division. Published by Rail Tapes, 2570 Colvin Hill Road, Danby, VT 05739-9748. Tape VE-49-163. Does not have Pelhamwood shot, but does show Webster Avenue, verified by the apartment house to the northeast of station.

2. "Memories of the New Haven Railroad" published by Mark I Video, P.O. Box 404, New Milford, NJ 07646, phone 1-800-66-MARK-1. Has a few shots of the NYW&B on Port Chester branch, including quick view of the tower and yards at Port Chester and end of track.

Would be glad to hear of any others.

  by Otto Vondrak
 
Charles- I dont think I've ever ventured down that way- I've tramped around Harlem River Terminal and the Oak Point running track and imagined NH operating a six-track ROW though...

-otto-
  by oakpoint
 
It sits there Otto all by itself with the signals less colored glass lenses.

The only other overhead wire gantrys from our beloved (sniff) "Westchester" are along side the approach to the Hell Gate Bridge.

If these structures could only talk !

Charles D :(
  by William Abbott
 
I believe I have located this "Anchor Bridge" which you might call a heavy duty gantry in an aerial view. I believe it is similar to the picture in the Signal System section of Roger Arcara's book.

If you will email me at [email protected] I will send you aerial shots of what I believe is the subject. Appears they could be photographed from the big 174th St. bridge, as now, with no leaves, is the time to do it. These shots I have were taken in the summer, and the gantry extends into the bushes at the left. These are copyrighted pictures so may not be used for any commercial purpose.

If someone is going near there it would be nice to have a picture of it before it too disappears in the name of "progress".

Bill

P.S. Does anyone have a picture of the bridge over the Hutchinson River Parkway on the White Plains Branch?
  by William Abbott
 
Correction. In the first paragraph above I refer to the Signal section of Roger's book. That should be the Energy Distribution section.

Question. Is a signal tower necessarily an anchor tower? I was under the impression they are not. A signal tower would be any tower with a signal, and an anchor tower would be a heavy duty tower whose function was to control tension in the overhead power line. Help !

Addition. My aerial photos show that where the Westchester pulled to the west away from the NH/NYConnecting line to head to the 133rd St terminal, the bridge it crossed (E. 132nd. ?) is still there. From the resolution of the photos I cannot tell if there are any concrete gantry tower bases there, but perhaps!! Moving north there are bridges at least to 142nd St, as best I can tell. Also, opposite the NH tower south of 142nd St. there appears to be one of the anchor towers. So someone have car trouble right there and grab a photo while fixing your car.

  by Otto Vondrak
 
A note for people visiting The Big Show at Springfield, Mass. this weekend. Bob Bang will have a table in the Stroh Building, and he will have copies of his books for sale. If you grab a program, he will most likely be listed as "Robert A. Bang."

See you there!

-otto-
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