New York Central Genesis - CHALLENGE

On the "PRR Catenary Electrics" Yahoo group, Robert M. Ellsworth has written:
"I tinkered for a while on ways to put five-stripe on Genesis, Acela,
and those bread-loaf locomotives. Couldn't figure out any way to do
it with elegance.
On the other hand, a Genesis in DGLE with properly-proportioned
keystones and small lettering is quite, quite elegant..."

Since the carbody that best displays Central's lightening stripes, in my opinion, is an earlier GE design -- the Alco-GE PA-1, designed by GE's Ray Patten -- I think this should be a challenge to all the model painters and Paintshoppers out there!

(Suggestion: I think having a stripe cross the boundary between a Genesis's side and the sloped front panel is likely to look wrong. Perhaps the thing to do would be to have the zigzag near the cab go all the way to the bottom of the unit's side -- narrowing to 3-strip if necessary -- so as to wrap around to the vertical bottom panel on the front, perhaps with an additional vertical stripe (sort of like the scheme applied to the FTs) in the center. But this is just what I'd try first: I'm not trying to dictate or cramp others' creativity!)

(Also posted to New York Central forum)

Well if you can't do the 5 stripe, do what I did! And do the wide single stripe.

Keep in mind that I am not completely done with these models. Side frames, underframe, front and rear pilot still need paint. Windows installed and minor details also put back on.

How about this: (In the front, the five stripes angle down to three, then they would have the NYC standard 90 degree angle to leave room for a herald. I also couldn't bring myself to make a totally apocryphal scheme, hence the Metro-North badge... hey, if CDOT uses the New Haven scheme, why not this for the MTA?)

Steve F45--
Well, Mr. Ellsworth SAID the PRR scheme worked better!
Mtuandrew--
That looks good from the side, and I suspect cutting off the stripes where they meet the transition from side to front panels may be the best solution. Can you show us a front view? As is, your design may (may: I'm not confident of my powers of visualization!) have too much black on the front, so some experimentation may be needed....
Both of you--
Thanks!

Allen Hazen wrote:Mtuandrew--
That looks good from the side, and I suspect cutting off the stripes where they meet the transition from side to front panels may be the best solution. Can you show us a front view? As is, your design may (may: I'm not confident of my powers of visualization!) have too much black on the front, so some experimentation may be needed....
Both of you--
Thanks!

Hm... let's see if this works. This drawing is based off a drawing from Will's Train Art, btw, and the last was based off a drawing from the Engine Shop. EDIT: Picture revised slightly

mtuandrew wrote:

Allen Hazen wrote:Mtuandrew--
That looks good from the side, and I suspect cutting off the stripes where they meet the transition from side to front panels may be the best solution. Can you show us a front view? As is, your design may (may: I'm not confident of my powers of visualization!) have too much black on the front, so some experimentation may be needed....
Both of you--
Thanks!

Hm... let's see if this works. This drawing is based off a drawing from Will's Train Art, btw, and the last was based off a drawing from the Engine Shop.

NYC Genesis 2.gif

You just helped me out tremendously!!! Thank you for posting that pic. I can now move onto my next project

Mtuandrew--
Many thanks! That's much better than I had feared it might be: I was afraid the lower, vertical, portion of the front would be too narrow for a satisfactory treatment, but what you've got looks pretty good. I will post to the PRRCatenaryElectrics group and invite Mr. Ellsworth to look at your 'proposal' and comment!
Steve F45--
I think some of the purists among the people who frequent this forum would think trying to fit old paint schemes onto newer GE locomotives was a waste of time, but it's fun! And even at full scale some people do it: witness the Finger Lakes Railway's lightening stripes on a U23B (though I think they used the full-width stripe the Central used on cab unitrs rather than the narrower version used on road switchers...), and the Lackawaxen Valley (? name may not be quite right) U30B in New York, Ontario and Western colors!

Allen, when I decided to do this scheme i knew people would be like, what the hell were you thinking? I said to myself I dont care. As long as I like it. I recently displayed them at the northeast fallen flags meet where I got a good amount of applauses for them and the effort. There were 2 people that made some really snide remarks. But whatever, to each his own.

Allen Hazen wrote:Mtuandrew--
Many thanks! That's much better than I had feared it might be: I was afraid the lower, vertical, portion of the front would be too narrow for a satisfactory treatment, but what you've got looks pretty good. I will post to the PRRCatenaryElectrics group and invite Mr. Ellsworth to look at your 'proposal' and comment!

Hopefully he'll at least find some inspiration from the idea

There wasn't really enough room for the herald between the angled stripes on the front, that's why it ended up between the number board and the headlights. I think that really helps the design, since it allows the stripes to wrap around that much further and puts the herald up where it can be seen. Also, if I were playing around with the design I might upgrade to a metallic steel color instead of plain gray, just to add a bit more visual interest to the flanks.

Steve: It's your own model. I can't say I don't contemplate what-if with the Milwaukee or the Chicago Great Western, no reason you can't do the same with the Pennsy or NYC. As long as you recognize that they're dead and gone, and probably not going to return unless NS and CSX are forcibly broken up, there's no shame in portraying them in model form.

These are all good.

Steve -- you're having the same problems with the stripe that I did -- it's because you have it up high on the flanks, where the curve around to the nose is compound with abrupt transitions. I think that if the stripe can be kept lower, it will 'wrap' around the nose with a bit less abrupt kinking in perspective (of course, I realize, it will not go niftily between the sets of windows in the bilevel cars...)

My original attempts were all more or less BP-20-ish (to me, the form of the carbody aft of the door is reasonably similar). It's the complex curve at the nose... or, perhaps more properly, my inability to lay one in... that presents the great difficulty.

I found a potential 'way out of the dilemma' today. Look at the stripe approach on the DD1s... all the way down on the lower carbody: put them here on a Genesis, and you have the smooth lower curve of the nose to play with. Sure, it's not as regal or as elegant as the GG1/E-unit five-stripe, but it should have continuity at any angle.


Andrew et al. -- the nose drawing of lightning-stripe is inspired... and should look quite good in perspective. Not to mention that it (successfully, to me) invokes the spirit of M497. One little point here: the oval herald is drawn as if its projection is 'straight vertical' (as, for example, it would be if hanging below a Hudson headlight) but I suspect it was intended to lie flat on the plane of the nose. In which case it would either need to be drawn in 'forced perspective' (which would look odd from overhead!) or would need to be set upright with some sort of fairing or drumhead.

Personally, I'd scale the lightning-stripe to be thinner -- works nicely with the bottom edge just above the lower radiator openings, and the upper edge at the 'bevel' turn of the carbody. Scale the 'internal' stripes to be proportional. You'd then have two choices: a deeper lightning-bolt to keep the striping in line with where it is, or the 'standard' drop (which would reduce the height of overall stripe going onto the nose transition). I concur that stopping part of the stripe at the point where the chisel nose meets the carbody was an excellent idea.


BTW: There was certainly an opportunity to paint "NYC" and "PRR" heritage schemes with justification: Those were the 'dummy operating entities' into which Conrail was split after the NS-CSX takeover. You may remember seeing the letters stenciled on many cabs... and I for one would note that a Norfolk Southern version of 'lightning stripe' could be easily arranged at little material cost simply by mixing some of that ordinary black and white paint in different proportions... ;-}

One other note: There is an honorable tradition of putting model-locomotive schemes on prototype locomotives that goes back a long way... to the D&H Sharks, in fact.


RME

overmod, the stripe wasn't that hard to do. But I understand what you mean. I was kinda following the stripe that is on Bennit Levins E8's in which the stripe is kinda higher with the PENNSYLVANNIA at the bottom. That is what I was modeling my models after. When I finally get the glossy clear on and the decals hopefully it will take away from the striping.

As for the NYC scheme. I've already ordered my NYC paint But im really starting to like the near black with the darker grey bolt.