New Widett Circle Rail Yard

CRail wrote: ↑Sat Dec 24, 2022 8:53 pm There has been no data because there isn't any to support it. There are fewer peak travelers because there are fewer peak trains, and service reliability has been in the tank. Highway traffic patterns, which are easily verifiable, do not support this notion of even volumes.

agreed. The new schedules SUCK

I guarantee you if they revert to the peak rushour schedules, the ridership may go back to normal. However, with reliability issues, I’m not so sure if that will happen so fast.

CRail wrote: ↑Sat Dec 24, 2022 8:53 pm There has been no data because there isn't any to support it. There are fewer peak travelers because there are fewer peak trains, and service reliability has been in the tank. Highway traffic patterns, which are easily verifiable, do not support this notion of even volumes.

Transit users have different needs than car commuters. I'm not saying it's a slam dunk, but it's gotta be studied more before we go back to the same old patterns.

That's utterly ridiculous. If the trains do not operate when the people are going where the trains go, they will drive. Highways mimic rail routes, that's not a funny coincidence.

Of course, I am not advocating for the expenditure of 250 M taxpayer dollars on opinion unsupported by data.

Sure you are! You want to run empty trains for non-commuters at the expense of the peak demand based on the wishful thinking that such doesn't exist.

The last thing we need is to waste time and money on "studies," especially to study NOT implementing change. Service patterns need to follow demand, not political agendas.

ANYWAYS: Investing in long sought after real estate to increase in town capacity which is already strained and only expected to get worse is absolutely a no-brainer. Long term visions also include relocating many non-revenue functions to be based out of Iron Horse Park. A primary maintenance facility on the side of the railroad with most of the equipment is an obvious strategic move, and is likely a step towards replacing BET outright with Widett and IHP which would likely result in a significant net gain in real estate deals.

CRail wrote: ↑Sat Dec 24, 2022 2:37 am The "flattened" schedule is artificial and based on political rhetoric rather than actual ridership patterns. Unless the T is to intentionally force the system to fail, which it may very well do, it will return to a schedule which adequately serves its demands and the peak model will resume.

If highway traffic congestion is any clue. rush hour no longer exists. Almost every hour is rush hour now.

maps.google.com > Layers > Traffic > Typical Traffic...

Again, this data is unbelievably available.

Tallguy wrote: ↑Sun Dec 25, 2022 8:13 am So I guess than your opinion is no more valid than mine. Of course, I am not advocating for the expenditure of 250 M taxpayer dollars on opinion unsupported by data.

CSRR573 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 12:28 am Should be interesting to see. Also the T is losing the "front yard" whenever the new Acelas show up, and look for a total redesign of Southampton street yard in the coming years

How are 700 ft Acela consists fitting in the Front Yard?

Already Have seen the plans. Major redesign of the whole area. The storage tracks for the new Acelas will be on the southern side of the dorchester branch. The Amtrak parking lot will lose a lot of space for this project. The current S&I is slated to become a new wash facility and a new S&I building will be built on tracks 9 and 10 whenever the new Siemens Sets show up. I was told 2026-2028 timeline but knowing Amtrak its probably closer to 2040

CRail wrote: ↑Fri Dec 30, 2022 1:53 am

Of course, I am not advocating for the expenditure of 250 M taxpayer dollars on opinion unsupported by data.

Sure you are! You want to run empty trains for non-commuters at the expense of the peak demand based on the wishful thinking that such doesn't exist.

Except they aren't empty. Have you ridden any mid-day trains? I do quite often, and they are crowded. People didn't ride them mid-day before, because there weren't trains running mid-day.

Most of the time, midday trains have coaches that are closed off which makes them seem more crowded than they actually are. It varies on how many conductors are manning the doors.

Commuterrail1050 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:57 pm Most of the time, midday trains have coaches that are closed off which makes them seem more crowded than they actually are. It varies on how many conductors are manning the doors.

True, but that has always been the case for mid-day service. What I meant was that the mid-day trains now are crowded, whereas they weren't a few years ago. I think there are two reasons for this:

1. Travel schedules are less rigid due to COVID and work from home, which makes a mid-day trip more likely.
2. Having hourly trains throughout the day makes the mode more appealing for mid-day travel. This is the if you build it, they will come phenomenon.

Anyway, what might be the future for us, if 9-5 commuting returns, is higher frequency during peak (30 minute headways for two hours), but we keep the hourly clock facing schedules for the rest of the day. The state has committed to reducing carbon emissions, a more rigorous regional rail system has to be a part of that.

Except they aren't empty. Have you ridden any mid-day trains? I do quite often, and they are crowded. People didn't ride them mid-day before, because there weren't trains running mid-day.

This is immensely untrue. Yes, I ride midday trains, they are absolutely not crowded. We see midday and night time ridership levels akin to what it was before. I'm all for clock facing schedules off peak, and actually believe blanket hourly headways lack proper analytics aren't enough service, but not at the expense of service where the demand actually is. Non-commuting ridership may be picking up, and that's a magnificent trend if true, but commuters are still commuting and the patterns are not vastly different than before. Traffic patterns reflect this as I've demonstrated with help from the Google. Ridership doesn't because, as was stated, "build it and they will come..." Peak service has not been plentiful nor reliable enough to get the swaths of people back out of their cars. Teleworking is not a new concept, people had hybrid schedules before Covid. The 9-5 is safe and sound and pretending it isn't will doom the service. Hopefully the new Gubernatorial administration won't take lessons from the old time railroads which sabotaged services to justify abandonment. That's the type of engineered results we're seeing here.

I'm glad the property will be used for railroad purposes instead of more luxury condos. There are still the two old New Haven boxcars stuck down there. Are any local tourist railroads interested in saving them from getting scrapped?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CEAcD95Q5E

Whether or not midday trains are more crowded than they used to be, the "peak" trains are NOT as crowded, even if there are fewer of them. I come into Boston regularly twice a week, and am not seeing anything like the crowds at South Station I used to see waiting for outbound afternoon trains. Nor are the morning trains I ride as crowded as they used to be.

Depending on how much fill they bring in (and it won't come by train these days) Widett Circle will be subject to fairly regular flooding in the 20-30 year time frame.

I worked down there in the 80s. There is a large culvert under the property that runs north to under West 4th Street and then out the Fort Point Channel. I never witnessed it flooding and I really can't say what will happen in 20 or 30 years, but I think they are safe for a while and probably in my lifetime anyway.