New Orleans-Baton Rouge Amtrak route

CNJ wrote:If you've ever driven I-10 between New Orleans and Baton Rouge during certain times of the day you would see what I mean

A train moving with a top speed of 49 MPH, with multiple station stops, permanent and temporary speed orders, and the acceleration/deceleration rates of a train, will move slower than the traffic on I-10 (or any other road), unless the average speed of the road is somehow less.

Even in rush hour traffic - Portland's MAX trains move about 10 miles an hour slower than traffic on the paralleling six-lane freeway - even if the freeway is moving 20 MPH below the speed limit, and despite that the speed limit for MAX trains is equal to that of the freeway.

Well that's all well and good for Portland, Oregon, Mr. Halstead. This situation is different.

I-10 between New Orleans and Baton Rouge is mainly on a long viaduct over water with little to no shoulders. It is usually almost always congested...(at least it was pre Katrina)....During heavy peak drive times, I can say with certainly that you won't even make it to 49 MPH on that stretch of highway.

The aforementioned comparison to Portland's MAX and the parallel/nearby highway is flawed because, as in too many rail vs. bus debates, the end point(s) of the trip are conveniently overlooked.

Put another way, those oh-so-fleet buses get stymied by traffic as they approach their final destination, especially if it's in a Central Business District. Ottawa's vaunted busway into downtown has (in Ottawa's view) failed to do the job. The Canadian capital is turning to rail instead.

Closer to home in New Jersey, a morning Pascack Valley Line/NEC rail trip via Secaucus Junction might, just might, prove faster than that #165 (or #167) bus into the Port Authority bus terminal. That more than occasional a.m. one-hour dragtime between the Turnpike and the Lincoln Tunnel sure is speedy. And that, we remind everyone, is with the vaunted Express Bus Lane (or, if one must bow to FTA, "Bus Rapid Transit").

NJ-ARP isn't in a position to evaluate accurately any Baton-Rouge/New Orleans rail route. It may be that, indeed, swift bus deployment might address the issue more adequately. It certainly would be a rapid "first response." But we question the blithe assumption that buses are automatically "faster" than trains (or even LRT) when the entire trip is factored in -- not just those zooming highway stretches in the middle of the trip.

In the Northeast Corridor, we hear the same automatic nonsense about trains vs. planes, too -- it doesn't hold up.

But we question the blithe assumption that buses are automatically "faster" than trains (or even LRT) when the entire trip is factored in -- not just those zooming highway stretches in the middle of the trip

...upon which the bus drivers hold blatant disregard for the speed limit. An Amtrak hogger who flouted the FRA's 79-mph speed limit (on rails so signaled) would not be so rewarded, despite having made his train time-competitive, possibly even against planes.

CNJ wrote:

wigwagfan wrote:

Gilbert B Norman wrote:At least equipment would not be a problem; surplus Corridor A-I's would do quite well as they could be deadheaded to/from CHI for their 'periodics'. F&B could be considered "optional'.

What is the proposed travel time between the two cities?

Can't address the running times issue, but the distance between Baton Rouge and New Orleans is a little more than 81 miles.

I doubt if you would get people to commute to work if the time is more than one hour. Would that be faster than driving?

MAS was 49 mph on the test run

Forgive my ignorance, is MAS "Maximum Allowed Speed" or "Median Average Speed" (a bit redundant, but I've been reading articles with this term over the past few days)?

MAS: Maximum Allowable Speed

wigwagfan wrote:Is the line signalled; or are the signals currently out of service?

The line is signaled, but not for 60 mph operation.

About MAS - thanks!

I doubt if you would get people to commute to work if the time is more than one hour. Would that be faster than driving?

Actually average commute times have remaine fairly constant at one-way desirable is 20-minutes. However, there are exception (average in Atlanta is 35-minutes one-way - average). I definitely think NO counts as an exception given the dearth of housing that seems to be there right now compared with the number of jobs available, at least in the short term. IN that case, an hour / hour and a half commute is by no means unreasonable or unexpected (such as Baton Rouge to NO).

In fact, doing bus surveys in northern Atlanta, I encountered people who drove an hour to the bus P&R (from Rome) and then spent an hour on the bus to get to Midtown Atlanta. 4-hours each day. I think they did an article about the longest commute in the country and it was 2 and 1/2 hours each way from someone who commuted from rural Maine into Boston via driving to Portland and catching the Downeaster. It was in the paraggon of truth - the Herald. Personally, having met people who live NC and work in Atlanta (the Doraville GM plant), I think there are actually longer commutes out there, but who am I to argue with the Herald?

gt7348b wrote:About MAS - thanks!

In fact, doing bus surveys in northern Atlanta, I encountered people who drove an hour to the bus P&R (from Rome) and then spent an hour on the bus to get to Midtown Atlanta. 4-hours each day. I think they did an article about the longest commute in the country and it was 2 and 1/2 hours each way from someone who commuted from rural Maine into Boston via driving to Portland and catching the Downeaster. It was in the paraggon of truth - the Herald. Personally, having met people who live NC and work in Atlanta (the Doraville GM plant), I think there are actually longer commutes out there, but who am I to argue with the Herald?

I think 49 mph is a ridiculously slow speed. Commuters into London are used to speeds of up to 100mph. Even 79 mph is rather restrictive. Narrower gauge trains in Johannesburg are capable of much more than 49.

People travelling 81 miles should expect about one hour travelling time.

No argument here. MAS is a result of signal and track requirements by the FRA and up to maintainence and investment decisions by the host railroad. Unless the feds or state or shareholder are willing to upgrade the line in question, it is going to remain at 49 mph. It is just the situation we work with in the US.

BTW - people in London are used to lots of things - like trains that don't run hours late (unless some poor sod has flung themselves on the track), trains that actually run more than once a day, trains to Disneyland that actually stop at the entrance to the park, multiple rail stations, etc. It would be nice to be used to those things in the US.

gt7348b wrote:No argument here. MAS is a result of signal and track requirements by the FRA and up to maintainence and investment decisions by the host railroad. Unless the feds or state or shareholder are willing to upgrade the line in question, it is going to remain at 49 mph. It is just the situation we work with in the US.

BTW - people in London are used to lots of things - like trains that don't run hours late (unless some poor sod has flung themselves on the track), trains that actually run more than once a day, trains to Disneyland that actually stop at the entrance to the park, multiple rail stations, etc. It would be nice to be used to those things in the US.

Of course people complain a lot. Trains are overcrowded and too many people have to stand. They are often several minutes late and people don't like that.
But the system as a whole brings thousands of people into town who couldn't possibly be put on the roads.
Almost all lines are electrified. (Only the western and Great Central lines are mostly diesel).

In the news: NOLA.com

Brief, fair-use quote:

Commuter rail linking New Orleans to Baton Rouge has broad support, big obstacles

...

Jindal's decision put supporters of renewed rail service on their heels. But they regrouped, and the Legislature created the Louisiana Super Region Rail Authority, an agency focused on resurrecting commuter rail across the seven parishes between Baton Rouge and New Orleans.

That group, partnered with the Regional Planning Commission, Capital Region Planning Commission and Baton Rouge Area Foundation, hired the national consulting firm HNTB in January 2013 to conduct a feasibility study of running a passenger rail service on existing freight tracks that hug the Mississippi River. They unveiled that plan in February 2014.

"(Jindal's opposition to federal transit funding) was kind of a good thing," said Kristin Gisleson Palmer, chairwoman of the authority's New Orleans delegation. "What wound up happening was (support for the funding) became more grassroots and parish-based."

The new plan scaled back its high-speed predecessor. Trains would still travel along tracks used for carrying freight. They would still stop at up to seven possible stations, and a station in Kenner would connect to Armstrong Airport by shuttle.

But the trains would not long speed along at 110 mph, settling instead for a top speed of 79 mph. And they would not travel back and forth up to eight times a day. Instead, there would be a morning train leaving in both directions, and an evening train taking passengers home.

...

Older stuff I found:

https://www.braf.org/brnola-commuter-rail

Baton Rouge-New Orleans Inter-City Rail
The Baton Rouge Area Foundation is advocating for intercity rail between Baton Rouge and New Orleans on existing tracks. Executive Vice President John M. Spain has led the project, and he serves on the board of the Southern Rail Commission. Studies say that $262 million in upgrades would bring the tracks up to standards for inter-city rail.

Recommended train stops are downtown and the Health District in Baton Rouge, Gonzales, LaPlace, Louis Armstrong New Orleans International Airport and the Union Passenger Terminal next to the Superdome in New Orleans.

Report: Passenger train between BR-NO would serve 1.4 million

...
Capital investment for starting the service would be $262 million, with federal funds underwriting up to 80% of the amount. Startup costs are less than the $448 million estimated in a 2010 study for the state of Louisiana. The earlier plan recommended improvements for speeds of up to 110 miles per hour.

HNTB recommends intercity passenger rail operations with maximum speeds of 79 miles per hour, a rate that is competitive with car travel. HNTB also advises leasing trains instead of purchasing them to reduce upfront capital costs.

Existing rail infrastructure owned by Kansas City Southern and Canadian National would be improved to provide for safer movement of cargo and passengers along the 80-mile corridor. Crossings would be upgraded and rail lines doubled in some sections to allow freight and passenger trains to move efficiently on the same lines. Many bridges would be strengthened or replaced so trains could travel at higher speeds. Replacing the 1.8-mile wooden rail bridge across the Bonnet Carre Spillway, where trains now crawl at 10 miles per hour, is the largest capital cost at $62.1 million.
...
The recommended startup service would operate twice daily between the downtowns of Baton Rouge and New Orleans, a trip that would take one hour and 35 minutes with seven stops on the route. A morning and afternoon train for commuters would start in each of the two cities on similar schedules.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/ ... ummary.pdf

Also: https://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge ... f7ab2.html

and: https://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge ... 7246c.html

...
All is not lost. John Spain of Baton Rouge is chairman of the Southern Rail Commission. He said leaders in the region — including parishes like Ascension, St. John and St. James — want the state to find $100 million to be matched with a variety of federal sources to build it.

Once built, will riders come? At an estimated $10 to $15 each way, it’s less than Uber and allows business people to work on the train instead of wasting their ride in a car.

Cities like Gonzales and LaPlace are already working on potential terminals for commuters, or just Saints or LSU fans on game days, to get on the train.
...

...
The state would need to put up at least $100 million that could be matched dollar-for-dollar by one or more federal grant programs, said John Spain, executive vice president of the Baton Rouge Area Foundation and chairman of the Southern Rail Commission.

“We need to have the state designate experts to actually take the work that has been done off the shelf and build a financial model that will identify the funding sources both local, state and federal to make this happen,” he said.

The Southern Rail Commission, Baton Rouge Area Chamber and GNO Inc. initiated the poll to gauge support for restoring passenger rail service between Baton Rouge and New Orleans as part of the Gulf Coast Passenger Rail Network.

Talk of creating a commuter rail line has been percolating and studied among state and local officials throughout the region for at least 20 years with no commitments yet for the money to build it.
...

That's the one I was talking about!

I brought this up on the other topic since it shows how a rebuild of NOUPT would be helpful for this service. Any recent news of it lately?