• New NY Dual Mode Discussion

  • This forum will be for issues that don't belong specifically to one NYC area transit agency, but several. For instance, intra-MTA proposals or MTA-wide issues, which may involve both Metro-North Railroad (MNRR) and the Long Island Railroad (LIRR). Other intra-agency examples: through running such as the now discontinued MNRR-NJT Meadowlands special. Topics which only concern one operating agency should remain in their respective forums.
This forum will be for issues that don't belong specifically to one NYC area transit agency, but several. For instance, intra-MTA proposals or MTA-wide issues, which may involve both Metro-North Railroad (MNRR) and the Long Island Railroad (LIRR). Other intra-agency examples: through running such as the now discontinued MNRR-NJT Meadowlands special. Topics which only concern one operating agency should remain in their respective forums.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, nomis, FL9AC, Jeff Smith

  by Backshophoss
 
The weight issue is the hang up (MN's Park Ave viaduct) the possible fix could be the use of A-1-A trucks as the FL-9 used
  by electricron
 
What is the max speeds allowed on MTA North tracks towards New Haven? Is it not 79 mph? Why should MTA spend money for either 110 or 125 mph geared locomotives?
What is the max speeds allowed of MTA North tracks towards Albany? Is it not 90 mph? Again, why should NY state or Amtrak spend money for either 110 or 125 mph geared locomotives?

It is so easy to overspend for locomotive capabilities you will never need in its’ life span.
Maybe 25 years from now, after signals and tracks have been improved for higher speeds it would be appropriate to buy faster locomotives, but not now. In 25 years, they will be buying the next generation of locomotives to replace those they are buying now.
  by Backshophoss
 
Setting the right gearing at the traction motor should allow a 85-90 MPH Max speed for the power,and still work well in commuter service
System wide MAS is 79 MPH
  by STrRedWolf
 
electricron wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:41 pm What is the max speeds allowed on MTA North tracks towards New Haven? Is it not 79 mph? Why should MTA spend money for either 110 or 125 mph geared locomotives?
What is the max speeds allowed of MTA North tracks towards Albany? Is it not 90 mph? Again, why should NY state or Amtrak spend money for either 110 or 125 mph geared locomotives?

It is so easy to overspend for locomotive capabilities you will never need in its’ life span.
Maybe 25 years from now, after signals and tracks have been improved for higher speeds it would be appropriate to buy faster locomotives, but not now. In 25 years, they will be buying the next generation of locomotives to replace those they are buying now.
The question about "Why should we overspend?" can be answered by asking a few questions:
  • Is there any equipment that is max 80 MPH that can haul 10+ cars stuffed full of passengers trying to get to work/home?
  • What is available "now" that fits what is needed "now"?
From what I read from the above LIRR Today article, Siemens already has an engine setup that'll do the job in Germany (the Vectron DM), and it will be a "short" development cycle to adopt it to US standards. Alstrom/Bombardier and MPI would require a "long" development cycle to get there, because they don't have anything... and Metro-North/Amtrak/etc would be paying for that development.

A "short" cycle is cheap in comparison to a "long" cycle, especially if you're paying for it. 2025 vs 2030+?

I really doubt it's an overspend when you can match MAS with "current, off-the-shelf" equipment.
  by STrRedWolf
 
Hmmm... Siemens Charger variant.

One thing that struck me though... multilevel cars. I wonder what the clearance is...
  by Jeff Smith
 
Very informative, thanks.

A couple of observations:

- Board approval given in December 2020 for 19+8 initial order
- 66 month timeline for delivery of initial 19. Given 5 1/2 years from today, order will be done late 2026/early 2027 at the earliest if no delays
- They are including them, potentially, in Penn Access; would the shoes be dual as the 8's are?
- Related to shoes: the LIRR page specifically says shoes adapted to under running; seems to me that should be dual
- CtDOT, LIRR, MNRR and (NYSDOT) (Amtrak) would have options for another 144 in total
- If NYSDOT exercises those options, they will meet Amtrak spec's
- Bi-level coaches are mentioned
  by NaugyRR
 
I was wondering how they'd satisfy the requirement for an escape hatch on the nose; the second-man's window is a pretty clever solution
  by eolesen
 
These are still over five years away from delivery.... Stunning considering that the Sprinter and Charger are already in service.
  by Jeff Smith
 
I'm not sure the first delivery will take five years, just that it would take that long for the total of 27 in the base order + first option.
  by NH2060
 
I would think the first pre-production unit could be finished as soon as 2024 (?) pending the progress and completion of the ALC-42 and VIA Rail/extra Brightline orders.
  by eolesen
 
Jeff Smith wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:43 am I'm not sure the first delivery will take five years, just that it would take that long for the total of 27 in the base order + first option.
I'm going off the 50 month statement for the pilot locomotive plus an inevitable delay somewhere between contract approval and final FRA certification.

66 month commitment is only for the first 19.

Combined with the Amtrak announcement this week, Siemens sounds like they'll be running above their current capacity for several years. Maybe they'll be able to surprise us and keep up. Or not.