New Haven subsidiaries - how many

How many subsidiary companies of the New Haven were there? I can think of these off the top of my head:

- New York, Westchester & Boston

- Union Freight Railroad

- Connecticut Company

others?

There was the Boston Terminal Company, the builder and operator of South Station, which was also partly owned (one-fifth share I believe) by the Boston & Albany.

In addition to the Connecticut Company, there were other street railway holdings in the early 20th century, but I can't list them from memory.

The Berkshire Street Railway in Pittsfield and area was owned by the New Haven Railroad and I seem to think the County
Transportation Company in Westchester County was also a New Haven subsidiary and also the Rhode Island Company in
Providence. New England Steamship/Fall River Line was also a New Haven subsidiary.
There are more, I will have to do some research on this unless somebody else beats me to the draw on this one.
Noel Weaver

The Rhode Island Company was definitely a subsidiary of the NYNH&H.

Otto- How are you defining the term, and what time frame are we talking about? Would control of the B&M/MEC under the Morgan/Mellen regime count?

Also, a lot of the merged predecessor companies continued to exist legally for many years-- and the Providence & Worcester, of course, was never technically merged out of existence. Not sure if that would constitute a subsidiary or not.

I think what I'm looking for a true wholly-owned subsidiary companies... not an outfit that was held at arm's length through stock ownership (Boston & Maine, for example). County Transportation Co. is a good example. So would be New England Transportation (wasn't that the trucking subsidiary?)...

Not sure I would count the P&W as for all intents and purposes, it was operating as part of the New Haven. Now, if the equipment was lettered "P&W" and drew from a P&W pool, I'd think otherwise. Think of B&O's SIRT subsidiary in that respect (or even the B&OCT).

-otto-

Otto Vondrak wrote:I think what I'm looking for a true wholly-owned subsidiary companies... not an outfit that was held at arm's length through stock ownership (Boston & Maine, for example). County Transportation Co. is a good example. So would be New England Transportation (wasn't that the trucking subsidiary?)...

Not sure I would count the P&W as for all intents and purposes, it was operating as part of the New Haven. Now, if the equipment was lettered "P&W" and drew from a P&W pool, I'd think otherwise. Think of B&O's SIRT subsidiary in that respect (or even the B&OCT).

-otto-

New England Transportation Company was wholly owned by the New Haven Railroad and was formed most likely to replace
rail service in areas where the railroad was losing a lot trying to provide branch line service and maybe expand as well in
cases where there was no railroad. It had a passenger operation with buses all over Southern New England and a freight
operation with trucks too. McGinnis and Alpert sold the bus operation in the late 50's and early 60's. The truck operation
lingered on a little longer.
Noel Weaver

Noel Weaver wrote:

Otto Vondrak wrote:I think what I'm looking for a true wholly-owned subsidiary companies... not an outfit that was held at arm's length through stock ownership (Boston & Maine, for example). County Transportation Co. is a good example. So would be New England Transportation (wasn't that the trucking subsidiary?)...

Not sure I would count the P&W as for all intents and purposes, it was operating as part of the New Haven. Now, if the equipment was lettered "P&W" and drew from a P&W pool, I'd think otherwise. Think of B&O's SIRT subsidiary in that respect (or even the B&OCT).

-otto-

New England Transportation Company was wholly owned by the New Haven Railroad and was formed most likely to replace
rail service in areas where the railroad was losing a lot trying to provide branch line service and maybe expand as well in
cases where there was no railroad. It had a passenger operation with buses all over Southern New England and a freight
operation with trucks too. McGinnis and Alpert sold the bus operation in the late 50's and early 60's. The truck operation
lingered on a little longer.
Noel Weaver

Noel- Was the New York Harbor carfloat operation part of New England Steamship, or was it a separate subsidiary?

The New York Connecting RR may be considered. Since it was a joint PRR/New Haven. I'm just not sure on the corporate arraignment.

Also, the South Manchester RR was bought & may have been a separate entity for a bit.

The answer to the threads opening question is 336. Many of these companies were so majority owned that for all intents and purposes, they may as well have been considered the NYNH&H Street Railway Company. For many such companies, it was more than just an interest - it was ownership and control. The New Haven was a powerhouse where it came to purchasing controlling interests in street railway companies. They had 1600 miles of street railways. The B&M became envious and petitioned the Legislature to do the same as the NYNH&H in 1905. The NH was so powerful that they bulldozed the petition to defeat in 1906. Some of the companies they were into: (source- The New Haven Railroad by John L. Weller.)
Mass:
Berkshire StRyCo
Nantasket Beach Line
Springfield StRyCo

Conn:
New London StRyCo
Norwich StRyCo
Montville StRyCo
Connecticut Co
Fairhaven & Westfield RR
Greenwich Tramway Co
Hartford StRyCo
New York & Stamford StRyCo

[/quote]Fairhaven & Westfield RR[/quote]
I believe that is actually Fairhaven and Westville - later became part of the New Haven Div. of the Conn. Co.
The CT Trolley Museum has an open car restored to its Fairhaven and Westville no. 355 appearance.

I think that you may be right CVRA7.

There's a great quote in the Weller book in a chapter titled "Trolley Follies" ( )that pretty much sums everything up. It's a Q&A between Chief Counsel for the Interstate Commerce Commission Robert Folk and President Charles Sanger Mellen, president of the New Haven. It goes;

Mr. Folk: "So it was your idea to concentrate the control of the transportation systems of New England in one monopoly ?"
Mr. Mellen: "I came pretty near doing it."
Mr. Folk: "Regardless of cost ?"
Mr. Mellen: "The cost of a seperate unit in a large system of transportation is not so material....A man that considers every time he buys an orange the price of the orange, if he is going to buy an orange orchard -that man never gets anywhere."

Many of the New Haven's "railroads" were actually leased. Union Freight was owned by the Old Colony, but the Old Colony was leased by the New Haven. The Central New England and the Harlem River & Port Chester initially were leased, but both were merged into the New Haven in 1927. The New York Connecting was jointly owned by the New Haven and Pennsylvania; maintenance and operational control was a New Haven responsibility, but corporate control may have alternated between the two on a scheduled basis. The carfloat operations were strictly New Haven. The New York, Westchester & Boston may have had New Havenesque origins, and some of its rolling stock was leased from the New Haven, but it was a separate entity, with no New Haven control whatsoever.

Probably the very best source of information on this topic is the book "Lines of the New York, New Haven and Hartford
Railroad Company" by R. Patrick Stanford and edited by Robert J. Ryer. My copy is dated 1976. I suspect it is probably long
out of print but maybe you can find one on e bay or maybe at a train show sometime and somewhere. It is a soft covered
book with a green cover and covers leases, control, consolidations, mergers, important events, rail abandonments, rosters,
steam subsidiaries and street railway and motor coach subsidiaries.
I can not begin to type up information from this 50 page book but it is full of facts and very interesting. It also has some
pictures of bygone eras as well.
This book is a quality production with good paper and interesting B & W pictures as well. Well worth looking for.
Noel Weaver

Noel Weaver wrote:Probably the very best source of information on this topic is the book "Lines of the New York, New Haven and Hartford
Railroad Company" by R. Patrick Stanford and edited by Robert J. Ryer. My copy is dated 1976. I suspect it is probably long
out of print but maybe you can find one on e bay or maybe at a train show sometime and somewhere.

There's a copy of it in the White Plains (NY) Library, in the local history room. I'll go over there and revisit it!

-otto-