New Canaan Branch Discussion

Crossings have no standard as to how many trains pass.
, there is a standard to which each type of crossing has to be built.
but crossings are not paid for by railroad, they are paid for by user, be it state, town, or private.
in this case a private owner ( business park) and its them, that decide if they want to pay for gates or not.
add to that the yearly maintenance fee, for railroad to maintain the physical crossing and electronics.

Clean Cab wrote:Whether or not the lights malfunctioned (they didn't!!)

The newspaper article indicates that they did malfuction, for a reasonable interpretation of "malfunctioned."

Clean Cab wrote:traffic laws in all states require all vehicles to "Stop. Look & Listen" at all railroad crossings so labled.

The crossing in question does not appear to be so labeled, judging from the photograph. The crossbucks are labled "CROSS ROAD". I actually can't recall seeing "STOP LOOK LISTEN" labels on any grade crossings I've crossed lately.

What sort of crossings are marked with "STOP LOOK LISTEN"?

(Just to add to the confusion, there seem to be some kinds of vehicles -- e.g., school busses -- which are requred to "stop look & listen" at crossings that other vehicles aren't.)


Which reminds me of another grade crossing question: are there grade crossings where the train does not automatically have right-of-way? I was in a car last night on a state highway that went over a grade crossing that, as far as I could see, had no lights, gates, or crossbucks. (There was a diamond sign warning about tracks.) It was near the Whippany (NJ) Railway Museum, and the track looked like it had been used (I even saw a dwarf signal.) The only way I could imagine it would be safe for a train to cross would be if you got flagmen (or state troopers) to stop traffic before the train crossed.

The sign does not state "stop look Listen" but the Connecticut Motor vehicle rules sure do:

2009 Connecticut Code
Title 14 Motor Vehicles. Use of the Highway By Vehicles. Gasoline
Chapter 248 Vehicle Highway Use
Sec. 14-249. Stopping at grade crossings.
Share | Sec. 14-249. Stopping at grade crossings. (a) An operator of a motor vehicle shall bring his or her motor vehicle to a full stop at a railroad grade crossing when warned of an approaching locomotive or a train by a law enforcement officer or flashing lights erected at such grade crossing pursuant to an order of the Commissioner of Transportation and shall refrain from passing over such crossing until the approaching locomotive or train has passed such crossing.

(b) An operator of a commercial motor vehicle shall refrain from passing over such grade crossing, regardless of whether flashing lights are erected or are operable at such grade crossing, unless all tracks are clear.

(c) An operator of a commercial motor vehicle shall, upon approaching a railroad grade crossing, drive such motor vehicle at a rate of speed that will enable such motor vehicle to be stopped when required by the provisions of subsection (a) or (b) of this section or section 14-250.

(d) Violation of any provision of this section shall be an infraction.

(1955, S. 1401d; P.A. 75-486, S. 42, 69; 75-577, S. 94, 126; P.A. 77-614, S. 571, 587, 610; P.A. 78-303, S. 85, 136; 78-372, S. 4, 5, 7; P.A. 87-449, S. 1; P.A. 05-218, S. 38.)

History: P.A. 75-486 replaced public utilities commission with public utilities control authority; P.A. 75-577 replaced provision for $100 maximum fine with statement that violation of section is an infraction and made technical grammatical change; P.A. 77-614 and P.A. 78-303 replaced public utilities control authority with commissioner of transportation, effective January 1, 1979; P.A. 78-372 expanded provisions by making failure "to refrain from passing over such crossing until the approaching locomotive or train shall have passed such crossing" an infraction; P.A. 87-449 increased penalty from an infraction to a $150 fine; P.A. 05-218 designated existing provisions as Subsec. (a) and amended same by making technical changes, adding "law enforcement officer" and deleting penalty provision, added Subsec. (b) requiring operator of a commercial vehicle to refrain from passing over grade crossing unless all tracks are clear, added Subsec. (c) requiring operator of a commercial motor vehicle, upon approaching a railroad grade crossing, to drive at a speed that will enable motor vehicle to be stopped when required and added Subsec. (d) specifying that violation of section is infraction, effective July 1, 2005.

See Sec. 14-111g re operator's retraining program.

See Sec. 14-301(e) re stopping at stop signs posted at grade crossings.

See chapter 881b re infractions of the law.


Disclaimer: These codes may not be the most recent version. Connecticut may have more current or accurate information. We make no warranties or guarantees about the accuracy, completeness, or adequacy of the information contained on this site or the information linked to on the state site. Please check official sources.

DutchRailnut wrote:The sign does not state "stop look Listen" but the Connecticut Motor vehicle rules sure do:

2009 Connecticut Code
Title 14 Motor Vehicles. Use of the Highway By Vehicles. Gasoline
Chapter 248 Vehicle Highway Use
Sec. 14-249. Stopping at grade crossings.
Share | Sec. 14-249. Stopping at grade crossings. (a) An operator of a motor vehicle shall bring his or her motor vehicle to a full stop at a railroad grade crossing when warned of an approaching locomotive or a train by a law enforcement officer or flashing lights erected at such grade crossing pursuant to an order of the Commissioner of Transportation and shall refrain from passing over such crossing until the approaching locomotive or train has passed such crossing.

(b) An operator of a commercial motor vehicle shall refrain from passing over such grade crossing, regardless of whether flashing lights are erected or are operable at such grade crossing, unless all tracks are clear.

(c) An operator of a commercial motor vehicle shall, upon approaching a railroad grade crossing, drive such motor vehicle at a rate of speed that will enable such motor vehicle to be stopped when required by the provisions of subsection (a) or (b) of this section or section 14-250.

(d) Violation of any provision of this section shall be an infraction.

(1955, S. 1401d; P.A. 75-486, S. 42, 69; 75-577, S. 94, 126; P.A. 77-614, S. 571, 587, 610; P.A. 78-303, S. 85, 136; 78-372, S. 4, 5, 7; P.A. 87-449, S. 1; P.A. 05-218, S. 38.)

History: P.A. 75-486 replaced public utilities commission with public utilities control authority; P.A. 75-577 replaced provision for $100 maximum fine with statement that violation of section is an infraction and made technical grammatical change; P.A. 77-614 and P.A. 78-303 replaced public utilities control authority with commissioner of transportation, effective January 1, 1979; P.A. 78-372 expanded provisions by making failure "to refrain from passing over such crossing until the approaching locomotive or train shall have passed such crossing" an infraction; P.A. 87-449 increased penalty from an infraction to a $150 fine; P.A. 05-218 designated existing provisions as Subsec. (a) and amended same by making technical changes, adding "law enforcement officer" and deleting penalty provision, added Subsec. (b) requiring operator of a commercial vehicle to refrain from passing over grade crossing unless all tracks are clear, added Subsec. (c) requiring operator of a commercial motor vehicle, upon approaching a railroad grade crossing, to drive at a speed that will enable motor vehicle to be stopped when required and added Subsec. (d) specifying that violation of section is infraction, effective July 1, 2005.

See Sec. 14-111g re operator's retraining program.

See Sec. 14-301(e) re stopping at stop signs posted at grade crossings.

See chapter 881b re infractions of the law.


Disclaimer: These codes may not be the most recent version. Connecticut may have more current or accurate information. We make no warranties or guarantees about the accuracy, completeness, or adequacy of the information contained on this site or the information linked to on the state site. Please check official sources.

Any questions???

Clean Cab wrote:

DutchRailnut wrote:The sign does not state "stop look Listen" but the Connecticut Motor vehicle rules sure do:

2009 Connecticut Code
Title 14 Motor Vehicles. Use of the Highway By Vehicles. Gasoline
Chapter 248 Vehicle Highway Use
Sec. 14-249. Stopping at grade crossings.
Share | Sec. 14-249. Stopping at grade crossings. (a) An operator of a motor vehicle shall bring his or her motor vehicle to a full stop at a railroad grade crossing when warned of an approaching locomotive or a train by a law enforcement officer or flashing lights erected at such grade crossing pursuant to an order of the Commissioner of Transportation and shall refrain from passing over such crossing until the approaching locomotive or train has passed such crossing.

(b) An operator of a commercial motor vehicle shall refrain from passing over such grade crossing, regardless of whether flashing lights are erected or are operable at such grade crossing, unless all tracks are clear.

(c) An operator of a commercial motor vehicle shall, upon approaching a railroad grade crossing, drive such motor vehicle at a rate of speed that will enable such motor vehicle to be stopped when required by the provisions of subsection (a) or (b) of this section or section 14-250.

(d) Violation of any provision of this section shall be an infraction.

(1955, S. 1401d; P.A. 75-486, S. 42, 69; 75-577, S. 94, 126; P.A. 77-614, S. 571, 587, 610; P.A. 78-303, S. 85, 136; 78-372, S. 4, 5, 7; P.A. 87-449, S. 1; P.A. 05-218, S. 38.)

History: P.A. 75-486 replaced public utilities commission with public utilities control authority; P.A. 75-577 replaced provision for $100 maximum fine with statement that violation of section is an infraction and made technical grammatical change; P.A. 77-614 and P.A. 78-303 replaced public utilities control authority with commissioner of transportation, effective January 1, 1979; P.A. 78-372 expanded provisions by making failure "to refrain from passing over such crossing until the approaching locomotive or train shall have passed such crossing" an infraction; P.A. 87-449 increased penalty from an infraction to a $150 fine; P.A. 05-218 designated existing provisions as Subsec. (a) and amended same by making technical changes, adding "law enforcement officer" and deleting penalty provision, added Subsec. (b) requiring operator of a commercial vehicle to refrain from passing over grade crossing unless all tracks are clear, added Subsec. (c) requiring operator of a commercial motor vehicle, upon approaching a railroad grade crossing, to drive at a speed that will enable motor vehicle to be stopped when required and added Subsec. (d) specifying that violation of section is infraction, effective July 1, 2005.

See Sec. 14-111g re operator's retraining program.

See Sec. 14-301(e) re stopping at stop signs posted at grade crossings.

See chapter 881b re infractions of the law.


Disclaimer: These codes may not be the most recent version. Connecticut may have more current or accurate information. We make no warranties or guarantees about the accuracy, completeness, or adequacy of the information contained on this site or the information linked to on the state site. Please check official sources.

Any questions???

Yes. Since this law is under the section of "Vehicle highway Use", and this grade crossing is on a private road, does this law have any relevance?

Obviously, as a law of survival and common sense it does, but....

the law is valid in entire state, including private roads.

DutchRailnut wrote:

amm in ny wrote:

Clean Cab wrote:traffic laws in all states require all vehicles to "Stop. Look & Listen" at all railroad crossings so labled.

The crossing in question does not appear to be so labeled, judging from the photograph.

The sign does not state "stop look Listen" but the Connecticut Motor vehicle rules sure do:

... Stopping at grade crossings. (a) An operator of a motor vehicle shall bring his or her motor vehicle to a full stop at a railroad grade crossing when warned of an approaching locomotive or a train by a law enforcement officer or flashing lights erected at such grade crossing pursuant to an order of the Commissioner of Transportation and shall refrain from passing over such crossing until the approaching locomotive or train has passed such crossing....

Your quote does not address my question.

My understanding of CleanCab's comment about "stop look and listen" was that there were crossings where motorists were required to stop, etc., regardless of whether there were any flashing lights, etc., and that these were indicated by a sign with the words "stop look and listen." Your quote only refers to the situation when the crossing signal is flashing/sounding or a law enforcement officer is stopping traffic, in which case the duty (& necessity!) to stop is pretty obvious.

So, a question of fact: is there a (legal) distinction between crossings which have the words "stop look [and] listen" and ones that don't?

2. The motorist says that the lights were not flashing and the bell was not ringing when she entered the grade crossing. If she is correct (and the other witness's report supports her claim), this section of the law would not apply. I don't think anyone in this thread is arguing that one does not have a duty to stop when the crossing signals are flashing & sounding or when the gate is down or coming down. Or that proceeding when lights are flashing or a gate is down or coming down isn't downright stupid.


Executive Summary:

1. The only actual facts about this accident come from the one news article. and that article raises doubts as to whether the signals were in fact flashing when the driver passed them. Nobody on this thread knows any more about what actually happened, so claims that are not supported by the news story are just so much huffing and puffing, as are arguments based on such claims.

2. The only other interesting question, IMHO, is whether the driver had a duty to stop and look for a train even if the signals weren't flashing. (The question raised by CleanCab.) If her vehicle was a "commercial vehicle" under CT law (which we do not know), then she did (as per DutchRailnut.) If it wasn't, I don't know.

you fail to comprehend, there is no signs saying " stop look and Listen.
but read the CT traffic laws again and it says you must stop at any indication.
As for Newspaper they are not even close to be authoritative, or right.
The investigation showed the Crossing working as intended.

The other witness states that the lights were malfunctioning. That doesn't mean they did not turn on when the train approach, it just means the lights were not working as designed. I've seen many instances of lights flashing erratically or flashing when no train is approaching. I've never ever seen or heard of all the lights failing to flash when a train is approaching except the CNIC incident a few years ago. People think that erratic flashing or flashing without a train is an excuse to go through. I think it's a bad idea unless a cop is flagging you through. Where I grew up on the NS(NYC) line, the cops would actually work with the railroad and put the gates down just to see if anybody would drive over. It was a great way to get a ticket.

According to Connecticut DMV:

Railroad Crossbuck
A white, X-shaped sign or “crossbuck” with “Railroad Crossing” printed on it is located at the railroad crossing. This sign has the same meaning as a “Yield” sign. You must yield to crossing trains.

Almost every railroad crossing on MNR has at least Crossbucks.(Only one I can think of that doesn't is King's Dock on the Hudson, which really isn't even a crossing, just a pile of dirt across the tracks.)

So at the very least the driver should yield to a train at crossing. Even if AWD are inoperative.

Tadman wrote:The other witness states that the lights were malfunctioning. That doesn't mean they did not turn on when the train approach, it just means the lights were not working as designed.

The crossing was working as intended the driver had over 30 seconds of warning time. The business park owners have multiple security camera that cover that crossing not to mention that there is an event recorder installed at that and most grade crossings to record the times and position on vital relays in the crossing box. Maybe the driver should just pay more attention and stop when the lights are flashing!

Tadman on MNCR each crossing has a event recorder, which records activation time and current( to each part iof crossing)
also 95% of all MNCR crossings are on surveilance Video of some kind, either RR or outside like industries.

I never really understand how anyone ever gets hit by a train. It's on tracks. It's not coming after anyone! But then, people around New Canaan are, in fact, mostly plants.

I think the issue here may be perception? I.e., with no gate, it's possible the driver may have only noticed the lights shortly before the train crossed, but in fact, the lights may have been on earlier than when first noticed. Call it "if a tree falls in a forest, does it still make a sound when no one is around" theory.

However, I think a members earlier post is proper; let's not rule out the lights malfunctioning until the investigation is complete. It is indeed easy to assume driver error. Thankfully, no one was killed, and I hope the engineer and crew are doing okay.

As for drivers blatantly disregarding crossings, you'd be hard pressed to beat our little short-line down here in Southeast Georgia near Savannah. It runs up and down a couple of times a week with consist lengths of about 10, interchanging with NS in Dover, GA. Since it runs so infrequently, drivers are not really used to it. Even at intersections with signals and gates, the engineer will approach intersections slow to make sure everyone sees him. This, of course, is not possible on a commuter railroad.

I think as others have said, gates would be wise.

All public crossings in MNR territory seeing regular passenger service should have gates. LIRR even gated a gravel road on the Main Line between Yaphank and Riverhead!

What other crossings on MNR have no gates? I think there's one on the Danbury.