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  • New 5500 HP EMD locomotives for India (WDG5)

  • Discussion of Electro-Motive locomotive products and technology, past and present. Official web site can be found here: http://www.emdiesels.com/.
Discussion of Electro-Motive locomotive products and technology, past and present. Official web site can be found here: http://www.emdiesels.com/.

Moderator: GOLDEN-ARM

 #974536  by MEC407
 
Are these powered by a downrated 265H or an uprated 20-710?

From The Economic Times:
The Economic Times wrote:NEW DELHI: Locomotive major Electro-Motive Diesel Monday said it has completed the design for a high-horsepower locomotive for the Indian Railways.

According to the company, the new design - WDG5 - would be developed into the most powerful diesel locomotive in the country with a power output of 5,500 bhp.
Read more at: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 126745.cms
 #974603  by MEC407
 
That was my thought at first, but then I came across this: http://tenders.indiamart.com/details/432529166/
 #974699  by v8interceptor
 
Darned if I can remember where online I read it, but several months ago I saw something stating that these locomotives would use 20-710s...I strongly suspect that they will be 5000HP units if rated by North American standards as it is more common for "international" locomotives to be rated by Gross HP...
 #977268  by MEC407
 
More on the WDG5:
The Economic Times wrote:NEW DELHI: With the aim of moving more freight at higher speeds, the Railways plan to roll out technologically advanced 5500 horsepower (HP) diesel locomotives early next year.
...
Called as WDG5, the locos, which will have a new design, will be equipped with several technlogically advanced features including those to guard against accidents.
Read more at:

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 256439.cms
 #977305  by Mr.S
 
1-Didn't EMD's DD35 carry 2-576D3A 16-cylinder engines?
2-Second what about EMD's SD80MAC doesn't it carry a 20 cylinder version of EMD's 710G prime mover,didn't the big blue aka CONRAIL purchase these before CR's break up?
 #977331  by MEC407
 
1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. How do those questions relate to the WDG5?
 #984000  by Mr.S
 
MEC407 wrote:1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. How do those questions relate to the WDG5?
Anybody have an idea what a wdg5 is or looks like,is it a new prime mover or railway locomotive? That is at 5,500 horsepower. I never heard about or of a wdg5...
 #984005  by RickRackstop
 
[quote

Anybody have an idea what a wdg5 is or looks like,is it a new prime mover or railway locomotive? That is at 5,500 horsepower. I never heard about or of a wdg5...[/quote]

Yes it looks like the WDG4 only bigger. The engine will be a 20-710 G.
 #1032894  by prakash
 
WDG5 is based on SD80MAC design. She has 20-710 power plant that has been improved to deliver 5,650 SHP. This loco is awaiting formal certification. I was able to see her, climb aboard, start it and run on test bed. Pictures will be uploaded shortly but her appearance closely resembles to WDG4 in India.

She will have only one driving cab and there is no real estate available to add second cab or to build a passenger version.

Please note that this is not April Fool prank.
 #1032972  by Allen Hazen
 
The March 2012 issue of "Railfan and Railroad" (U.S. railway enthusiast magazine), p. 22, has photos and a short article about "SD80ACe" locomotives built for the Carajas railway in Brazil. Given Brazilian loading gauge and weight limits, these are (I think) essentially built to U.S. domestic standards, rather than being constrained to the Indian loading gauge and weight limits.

Seven units were "released" in late December 2011. They are described as "5300-h.p." Overall appearance similar to recent SD70ACe units for North America (including the aggressively ugly EMD cab). The article (by Walt Lankenau) notes that "While EMD literature says all 710-series engines meet U.S. Environmental Protection Agency Tier2 standards, its not clear whether the SD80ACe could be adapted to meet EPA Tier3 standards for new locomotives, which go into effect this year, for operation in the United States."

There's an interesting history here. There was a flurry of interest in high (5000 hp and up) power diesels in the U.S. in the mid 1990s, which subsided when neither EMD's SD90 nor GE's AC60CW met initial expectations: since then North American railroads seem to have been content with locomotives in the 4300-4400 hp range, and recently (first) GE and (now) EMD have announced models of that power with idler axles,so that the power per motored axle is equivalent to that of a CC unit of over 6000 hp. Railroads elsewhere seem to have been more adventurous: GE sold locomotives with the 16 cylinder GEVO engine, first to China and more recently to Brazil's VALE. Now EMD has similarly marketed locomotive with 20 cylinder 710 engines, first to another Asian operator and now to another Brazilian railroad. U.S. air pollution limits seem to be difficult for the locomotive builders to meet, but when they do, can we anticipate orders for 5300 and 6000 hp locomotives in North America?
 #1034173  by prakash
 
The situation in India is different than North American market.

Transfer of Technology (ToT) signed in 90s, between EMD and Diesel Loco Works (DLW), Varanasi, India, covered 20-710 technology.

WDG4 based on SD70MAC did not have EFI and delivered 4,000 SHP. DLW worked with EMD and boosted it to 4,500 SHP before similar product was announced in North American market.

Siemens electronics and EM-2000 were replaced by indigenous Medha products and axle control (instead of bogie control) was added. http://www.medhaindia.com/ Siemens TMs are still used but DLW is testing EMD TMs on one unit. Siemens TMs have proven to be problematic and their warranty covers only two years.

Passenger version with dual cabs was introduced last year with maximum speed at 140 kmph.

WDG5 was under consideration for over 5 years now since technology was licensed but DLW was undecided due to history of SD-45 teething problems.

The bottom line is, DLW opted for SD80MAC design as it was the least expensive way to go under their current situation.

Both EMD and GE are eager to build 6,000 HP loco in India but final agreement is lingering for over two years now and nobody can predict when it will be approved by the Government of India.
 #1034202  by Allen Hazen
 
Prakash--
Thank you for details! ... Interesting that the Indian derivative of the SD70 (the WDG4) has axle control rather than the bode control used on domestic EMD locomotives: do Indian engineers know something EMD's don't? (It's not just a US vs India thing: GE (AC motored) locomotives have axle control.)
 #1034370  by prakash
 
DLW signed two contracts, one for EMD and
other for Siemens. The latter covered
electronics and TMs.

You will be surprised that Siemens traction
motors in India have a warranty of just 2
years.

When I visited a loco shed, I saw over 100 TMs
that are defective, detected after 24 months
and hence under no warranty. In US, I cannot
think of 24-months warranty even for my car.

No wonder, IR opted for axle control over
bogie control. In US, TMs are manufactured by
EMD (albeit with license from Siemens) and for
SD70ACe, I am not sure if Siemens is a vendor
or someone else (Mitsubishi?) is.

When foreman of loco shed told me that DC TMs
are more reliable than AC TMs, I could not
believe him. Well, it is an issue with Siemens
1TB2622 TMs are not AC TMs in general.
Pictures of defective TMs will be posted on
web soon.

EMD certainly knows about it but with 95+%
availability of EMD locos, this is not an
issue for EMD.