NEC now Fixed Seating Including Rear-Facing

People ride backwards on commuter trains all the time. What’s the big deal?

MACTRAXX wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 9:26 pm
On an historical standpoint I believe that the first Amtrak trains to operate "backwards" were #40 and #41
"Broadway Limited" between New York Penn Station and Philadelphia 30th Street beginning in April 1980
when the engine change and Washington section combination was ended in Harrisburg - moved to PHL...

This is a fairly normal thing in Europe and even South America. The Highland Caledonian Sleeper pulls into Edinburgh, the electric motor comes off, a 66/73 diesel combo attaches to the rear, and it leaves (in three sections) for the north of Scotland.

The Patagonian Express is the same way. It pulls into San Antonio Oueste, the engines run around, re-attach to the other end, and leaves for San Carlos.

I can probably think of 5+ other examples of this. It's normal. Even the Milwaukee Road did it with the Olympian Hiawatha between Tacoma and Seattle.

Also on the Patagonian Train, you have good chance of being pulled behind an Alco until last month when it was "temporarily suspended" due to track issues. There is grass up to the rail head everywhere...

Nasadowsk wrote: ↑Sun Mar 03, 2024 7:43 am People ride backwards on commuter trains all the time. What’s the big deal?

Mr. Nas, haven't you ever noticed how with a fixed seating arrangement as good as in place anywhere, save Chicago's METRA, and I think NJT, the forward riding seats fill up first?

I sure did when commuting on SEPTA '77-'78.

Now so far as overseas, of which I've done my share over the past ten years, after boarding, I've always tried to find out the direction of travel, but of course, as Mr. Dunville notes, that can change - even several times - during a trip.

However, the instance I reported earlier, when traveling from Innsbruck to St. Anton/Arlberg, a gal in a forward riding seat, after asking me to wake her as we got near St. Anton, promptly went to sleep during one of the more spectacular rides I know in this world, leaving me riding backwards.

GRRRRR

I had a similar, of sorts, incident I also reported around here on an ORD to LGA flight. After I paid extra to upgrade to First just to flightsee (OK; one glass, but that was all as I had to drive a rental auto from there to Greenwich), I was assigned an aisle seat and by the window was this guy already asleep, and, being an afternoon flight, shades were "default closed". I couldn't even see what runway we were using at ORD!!

Now finally on approach to LGA and somewhere over NJ, he wakes up (a real nice guy BTW) sees I'm looking at the window. "Would you like to look out?" "Well that's why I paid extra to ride up here". "Gosh, why didn't you wake me up at O'Hare; I can sleep anywhere".

It was a crystal clear day (not a good thing to say; but reminiscent of 9/11) and the approach to LGA on the Left side of the aircraft first viewing the Statute of Liberty, then Lower Manhattan, and viewing the Manhattan skyline along the East River for a landing on Rwy 31, is to behold.

Rotating seats have been used around the world with no problem. I do remember something about people being fatally injured in a Sightseer Lounge due to unlockable loose swivel seats but this is rare and those seats are unique scenic perches. You can't provide 100% safety on a train. People are killed more often by being throw from between cars during a derailment but you're not going to stop people from passing between cars are you? Can't remove windows even though people get flung out of them pretty often. Say no to seat belts.

Once seats are locked on place they are secure enough.

Per the NTSB report on the December 2017 crash at the Point Defiance Bypass failure of the rotating seat locks was the direct cause of some passenger's injuries and caused seats to block isles, preventing egress following the accident. That report lists a number of times when the failure of the seat rotation locks led to injury.

I remember on one of two Youtube channels (ether Solo Solo Travel or Solo Japan Travel) there is a seat design that can switch sides by swinging to the opposite side. Not rotate, but if you push the upper part forward it switches to the other side. I think some locking bolts could be employed to secure it on one side or another.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Sun Mar 03, 2024 8:46 am Mr. Nas, haven't you ever noticed how with a fixed seating arrangement as good as in place anywhere, save Chicago's METRA, and I think NJT, the forward riding seats fill up first?

I guess after doing NYP to Port Washington or Mineola a zillion times, I’m just happy to have a seat, now that the LI has nothing but party cabs on their MU fleet, save for the once in a while M-3.

Overseas, I don’t really think much about it either. Especially since a lot of trains change direction en route anyway.

Guess it doesn’t bother me.

I think it was on Jersey Transit that I saw a conductor walk the length of the coach aisle, with both arms extended to the side, causing the seat backs to all swing to the other edge of the bench as he passed, "reversing" the seats. It's nifty for commuter cars but it means the seat bench must be flat and the seat backs must be upholstered the same on both sides: no fold-down trays.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Sun Mar 03, 2024 5:25 pm I remember on one of two Youtube channels (ether Solo Solo Travel or Solo Japan Travel) there is a seat design that can switch sides by swinging to the opposite side. Not rotate, but if you push the upper part forward it switches to the other side. I think some locking bolts could be employed to secure it on one side or another.

dhturbo wrote: ↑Sun Mar 03, 2024 6:47 pm I think it was on Jersey Transit that I saw a conductor walk the length of the coach aisle, with both arms extended to the side, causing the seat backs to all swing to the other edge of the bench as he passed, "reversing" the seats. It's nifty for commuter cars but it means the seat bench must be flat and the seat backs must be upholstered the same on both sides: no fold-down trays.

That is called a walkover seat from the wooden car era.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Sun Mar 03, 2024 5:25 pm I remember on one of two Youtube channels (ether Solo Solo Travel or Solo Japan Travel) there is a seat design that can switch sides by swinging to the opposite side. Not rotate, but if you push the upper part forward it switches to the other side. I think some locking bolts could be employed to secure it on one side or another.

We use those on the Naugatuck Railroad in coach class. I've walked the length of two coaches flipping them on sold out trains to accommodate sold out trains.

From Mr. Wolf's immediate 1639920 et seq, you all lose sight that walkover seats were simply the standard back when I first started to ride trains. This was after The War because during, residing in Sewickley PA (Pittsburgh) "for the duration" but with family in Greenwich, my train hating Father would save ration points to make the drive (1942 Pontiac). Therefore, I learned the names of the seven tunnels on the Pennsylvania Turnpike rather than the names of the stations on the Pennsylvania Railroad.

But of course, times do change. Yesterday, I learned that the Elementary School District around here yanked all traditional "big hand, little hand" clocks, as kids simply no longer know how to "tell time", and in the digital age not much reason to make them learn.

But to close on topic, those of us who wish otherwise had best become Kubler-Ross Phase 5 regarding fixed seating. It is simply the "new standard".

I took the posts on fixed seating from the Airo thread and put them here.

Amtrak actually has a fact sheet: PDF

Watch out Amtrak. Some people with severe motion sickness can be considered as having a disability. Lawsuits coming?

Tadman wrote: ↑Thu Feb 29, 2024 2:55 pm All of these FRA dream trains will have backwards seating. Unless of course they go with my brilliant idea of just runnig a loop from Pocatello through Flint, Huntsville, Joplin, Merced, and back to Pocatello.

I doubt Chicago - Miami (probably number one on the list) falls under that situation.

RandallW wrote: ↑Sun Mar 03, 2024 4:41 pm Per the NTSB report on the December 2017 crash at the Point Defiance Bypass failure of the rotating seat locks was the direct cause of some passenger's injuries and caused seats to block isles, preventing egress following the accident. That report lists a number of times when the failure of the seat rotation locks led to injury.

So you make them stronger.

BTW - Lot's of problems with that accident.