Railroad Forums 

  • NARS - National Academy of Railroad Sciences

  • General discussion about working in the railroad industry. Industry employers are welcome to post openings here.
General discussion about working in the railroad industry. Industry employers are welcome to post openings here.

Moderator: thebigc

 #759757  by gp80mac
 
I know CSX and NS have their own in-house training program. I think UP does, too? What does that leave? BNSF and KCS? Plus lots of regionals and shortlines. In short, I don't understand these classroom training places. I had 2 separate periods of "classroom" training with my class-1. But looking back, 95% of what is necessary to know, I learned on the job. You don't need a study guide to tell you how to tie a handbrake, throw a switch, or bleed a car.

Being a competent RRer does not come from having a certificate - it comes from experience, and experience only. The economy may be looking a little better in some places, but there's still lots of furloughed workers out there.
 #759875  by HoggerKen
 
FinalDestination wrote: You people shouldnt be so negative towards any educational training right now. I bet I wouldnt get a job managing a paper comapany after succesfully graduating a 6th week buisiness coarse ither. its just been a rough few years for everyone.
Yes, I can, it's simple. Pay $4,000 for training, and then get a job, or pay $0, get the same job, and be paid for the training. And since I hired out in '95, it is not as if it is sour grapes. Spending money to get a job is insane if a majority get the same jobs for free.
 #759914  by FinalDestination
 
HoggerKen wrote:
FinalDestination wrote: You people shouldnt be so negative towards any educational training right now. I bet I wouldnt get a job managing a paper comapany after succesfully graduating a 6th week buisiness coarse ither. its just been a rough few years for everyone.
Yes, I can, it's simple. Pay $4,000 for training, and then get a job, or pay $0, get the same job, and be paid for the training. And since I hired out in '95, it is not as if it is sour grapes. Spending money to get a job is insane if a majority get the same jobs for free.
Without any experience or employee referals out here, NARS should have some pull in an interview compared to someone applying off the street.
 #759921  by HoggerKen
 
FinalDestination wrote:
HoggerKen wrote:
FinalDestination wrote: You people shouldnt be so negative towards any educational training right now. I bet I wouldnt get a job managing a paper comapany after succesfully graduating a 6th week buisiness coarse ither. its just been a rough few years for everyone.
Yes, I can, it's simple. Pay $4,000 for training, and then get a job, or pay $0, get the same job, and be paid for the training. And since I hired out in '95, it is not as if it is sour grapes. Spending money to get a job is insane if a majority get the same jobs for free.
Without any experience or employee referals out here, NARS should have some pull in an interview compared to someone applying off the street.
Experience has taught me, training has absolutely no bearing at a hiring session (cattle calls). Not under CNW, and not under UP. Basically because they toss away all you learned at some school and train you the way they want.
 #759998  by slchub
 
I have to agree with the other professional railroaders (myself included) that paying for training for a "railroad" career outside the scope of a "true college" degree to be used in management is foolhardy (however, basic electrical, welding, engineering degrees/certs are fine for those jobs requiring such on the RR). I find it outlandish that NARS actually states on their website that the the Class 1 RR's will give preference to their graduates over those who do not have NARS training.

How can a school state that and remain positive that any and all hiring managers will give preference to NARS graduates (I saw my manager yesterday who hires for our crew base and asked him if he knew of NARS and if the carrier gave preference to NARS graduates. He had no idea what I was talking about, but, he did mention that he would no doubt find it interesting that someone off the street would would pay for their own "education" without the guarantee of being hired by a RR and then have to sit for another 6 weeks of classroom time once hired having to absorb the material the carrier wants to you know and is mandated by the FRA to provide to it's new hire employees)? I also find it hard to believe that NARS would state on their website that those wishing to be employed in the mechanical/electrical side of things with the RR will find it easy to land a job after a 6 week course. A quick browse to the UP, BNSF, NS and CSX all show that positions of this nature require experience and time in the field. I don't think a 6 week course is going to cut it. Same goes for Conductor.

All of the Class 1 carriers will pay for your training. Any school asking you to pay for training that the railroads provide free of charge is a scam in my book. Read below, from the CSX website for an Assistant Signal Worker (same goes for Conductor):

Initially, you will attend three weeks of paid training at the Railroad Education & Development Institute in Atlanta, GA., and three (3) additional training sessions that will be scheduled approximately 130 days apart. CSX will pay for travel, lodging and meals as required by collective bargaining agreement.

Given the current economy and the number of RR Conductors furloughed a person who does not have any experience on the high iron is going to have a tough go of it even at a shortline operation. I say save your money and get some training in a field that may have some prospects for you with a certificate or degree. A 6 week class at NARS is not going to be your meal ticket to a Class 1 RR. None of them are hiring conductors at this time anyway.

One other thing. I found it interesting that you stated the following:

"I dont want to get down there and have nothing to do but watch TV in the hotel room all weekend lol"

Anyone wanting a career in the RR should do all they can to learn the ropes and instill in themselves of all of the material presented to them in the classroom. Worrying about watching TV in the hotel room is the last thing anyone wanting to be a Conductor on the RR should think about. While I did not see anything on the NARS website about a mandatory passing grade to receive your certificate, do know that on the RR you'll be given two chances to pass a test. Fail once (85% on some tests, 100% on signals, meaning you HAVE to get an 85% or 100%. 84.5% or 99.75% does not cut it), you can retake it. Fail that one and you are on the street. Good luck with your endeavors. Keep us posted on your job hunting once you hit the streets with the certificate. I'm not being facetious, I'd really like know how the NARS training works out for you.
 #760020  by jz441
 
I remember in 2006, we had a class of 12 new hires, and they were hired straight from NARS... Unfortunately, they are all furloughed!
 #760047  by COEN77
 
NARS appears to be a west of the Mississippi thing on the east coast I do believe it was AMDG. All you have to do is read the threads on AMDG which stole money from people and high tailed it out of town seeing CSX & NS were training their own new recruits. On CSX there still is a hatered of these schools from those who hired on using them going into debt when those who got hired after them were trained at the REDI center in Atlanta with pay, meal allowance, and lodging provided by the carrier. I think more studying needs to be done by the individual to see what the railroad they are interested in provides. If training is provided by the carrier then wasting money would be foolish. Even those who were trained from the REDI center bragged about their test scores like it was some thing to impress us. The real training begins when you get on the job. I've trained a lot of engineers in my carreer first thing I tell them throw everything you were taught out the window. I will admit their knowledge of the rule book is impressive but there just words it's practical application that counts. That only happens through experience.
 #760728  by slchub
 
No word from our buddy at NARS. I wonder how he is doing and what's going on?
 #761398  by chemin-de-fer
 
I don't mean to discourage you, sounds like you're doing what you want to do. I did railroad recruiting, and what they want to see is previous experience. For instance, if you want to be a track worker, what kinds of heavy equipment have you operated? Have a Class B CDL? Done outdoor work? Can you fix something in the field? Weld? Every one of those adds to your chances, because that's what they actually do out there.

Reason they want to know this is because training and physicals and background checks and drug screens all cost money, and a lot of buffs get disillusioned when they actually gotta grunt. We had a guy on one railroad I worked for that actually cussed the crew caller on his first early morning call off the board and went back to bed. After saying yes, yes, yes, I understand I'll work all hours of the day, no problem.

So experienced managers in transportation are usually looking for someone who's already worked nights and worked outside. Airline workers, truck drivers, loggers, construction, military, outdoor guides... all look good. For example, if you want to be a dispatcher and you did air traffic control, you've got a good shot. They're looking for some coherence between what you've actually done and what you're applying for. Some white collar guys do well in class and turn into tanglefoot out on the property. Here's an odd one: prison admins do very well on rules because they're used to keeping up with ever-changing regs.

So if you're sincere about getting a job and don't care about the dough, good on ya. But get those physical skills down as well as the book stuff. And working part time as a driver or something in transportation won't hurt either, especially if it sort of relates to what you're applying for and has some late hours. You need something to point to that shows you've already handled some of the concerns they will have.

Also, I've worked with NARS grads. Some are very good, some meh. What's important is you, how much you get out of what they offer and how much of it you can let go of when you hit the real world. Let the training inform you, but not rule you.
 #767891  by RAILROADTRAINING
 
I was wondering, since I want to work for bnsf as a conductor very badly, and I really want to go to the national academy of railroad sciences very badly, I was wondering which is better:
1. getting a conductor certificate, and joining a short line railroad for experience or,
2. getting a conductor associates degree and joining a short line railroad.

just wondering which one you would recommend, and also I would also like to move into higher positions such as management, and director, so will an associates degree help, also, when you obtain your conductor associates degree, do you get a conductor certificate as well?

by the way the certificate is provided by nars, and the degree is provided by jccc(the college in which the nars campus is held on)
 #768069  by countryboy19
 
RAILROADTRAINING wrote:I was wondering, since I want to work for bnsf as a conductor very badly, and I really want to go to the national academy of railroad sciences very badly, I was wondering which is better:
1. getting a conductor certificate, and joining a short line railroad for experience or,
2. getting a conductor associates degree and joining a short line railroad.

just wondering which one you would recommend, and also I would also like to move into higher positions such as management, and director, so will an associates degree help, also, when you obtain your conductor associates degree, do you get a conductor certificate as well?

by the way the certificate is provided by nars, and the degree is provided by jccc(the college in which the nars campus is held on)

Why do want to go to NARS so bad? You don't have to go there and waste your money to get on with a railroad. Just have a good resume that shows stable work history, safety, working in all kinds of weather, and working on call. If you want to be a manager and such they prefer a college degree, but as long as you pass their management test you have a chance. You don't need to join a short line for experience, for a Class I railroad. They will train you. I hope you get the job you want and wish you the best of luck but it might be awhile before you see any hiring with BNSF.
 #769552  by GN 599
 
WTF is a Conductor Associate Degree? I never got one! Is this for real? I am an engineer but I guess I missed out on my Bachelors Degree. How old are you Mr. Training? Keep a good work record and bug them all the time and you can get hired. Thats all there is to it. If you ever get hired at BNSF and want to get into management BNSF offers all the tools and training you will need. However if you want to get higher than middle management you will need to go to a four year college and get an Associate or Bachelors in business, economics, law or all three. Most managers I have seen without them hit a glass ceiling.
 #769553  by GN 599
 
countryboy19 wrote:
RAILROADTRAINING wrote:I was wondering, since I want to work for bnsf as a conductor very badly, and I really want to go to the national academy of railroad sciences very badly, I was wondering which is better:
1. getting a conductor certificate, and joining a short line railroad for experience or,
2. getting a conductor associates degree and joining a short line railroad.

just wondering which one you would recommend, and also I would also like to move into higher positions such as management, and director, so will an associates degree help, also, when you obtain your conductor associates degree, do you get a conductor certificate as well?

by the way the certificate is provided by nars, and the degree is provided by jccc(the college in which the nars campus is held on)

Why do want to go to NARS so bad? You don't have to go there and waste your money to get on with a railroad. Just have a good resume that shows stable work history, safety, working in all kinds of weather, and working on call. If you want to be a manager and such they prefer a college degree, but as long as you pass their management test you have a chance. You don't need to join a short line for experience, for a Class I railroad. They will train you. I hope you get the job you want and wish you the best of luck but it might be awhile before you see any hiring with BNSF.
You are right on the money with that last sentence. I am closing in on 9 years and just got back to my home terminal last month. It may be years before they start doing any real hiring.
 #769607  by slchub
 
FinalDestination wrote:Hey guys, sorry its been a few days, been busy with Class and home things... Ill write up whats happend so far sometime tomorrow.
I wonder how things are going for Final?

Give us an update. We'd like to hear what your thoughts are on paying for the training and providing some insight to others who may have the same questions you posed before attending.
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