• my neighbors are at it again (on topic)

  • Discussion related to NYAR operations on Long Island. Official web site can be found here: www.anacostia.com/nyar/nyar.html. Also includes discussion related to NYNJ Rail, the carfloat operation successor to New York Cross Harbor that connects with NYAR.
Discussion related to NYAR operations on Long Island. Official web site can be found here: www.anacostia.com/nyar/nyar.html. Also includes discussion related to NYNJ Rail, the carfloat operation successor to New York Cross Harbor that connects with NYAR.
  by RRChef
Blissville to Sunnyside is not impossible. It's only gonna cost $200 million+ to rebuild the Montauk flyovers. :P

I agree, this is no joke. These people are not going to take no for an answer. And like I said in an above post, it's not about the garbage, it's ALL train traffic they want to stop. If anyone is on Facebook , I suggest joining their group so you can see exactly what they are up to.
  by Kamen Rider
ncvab wrote:Tongue in cheek, I advised one of their members that perhaps a westbound freight run through NY-Penn would be even faster.
don't give these morons ideas.
  by freightguy
Conrail used to utilize the Lower Montauk if there was a derailment on the Fremont Seconday to connect back in with the NY Connecting RR. One of the retired LIRR yardmasters had pictures of such moves. I think the LIRR is trying to get the NYAR out of Arch St. for East Side Access and for the heavy cost to rebuild the Montauk cutoff. Probably a safe bet the Fremont Seconday isn't going anywhere. As of now a vital link into the rest of the national freight system.
  by DogBert
Maybe we need to start our own FB group/lobby group in general completely against everything these clueless idiots stand for. What about us average people who are glad the RR is there, and thrilled it is hauling trash to boot? Those of us sick of seeing hundreds of trash trucks hauling crap out of NYC and LI, battering our highways and running up huge taxpayer bills in comparison to the rail option?

They have a link on there to some NY times article about building power plants that run off trash. Great idea. Please, build them in central queens. Run NY&A out of town and place a power plant at fresh pond instead. Hey, then we can transport trash from the Bronx directly by rail to the new power plant.

It appears really that there's maybe 4 or 5 known professional agitators behind the entire group. No one should be fooled by the '320 people like this page' that fb shows. That's 320 people that clicked on a button. Big deal.

The only good point they make are that NYA's engines are old and have more exhaust. Maybe they should lobby for grant money to get newer engines down there... those spiffy new 'green' units CSX has in the bronx didn't just magically appear as a gift from the corporate transportation gods.

And exactly what do these idiots think will happen if everything were to ever be rerouted? Do they magically think an abandoned RR line is going to be better for them? There's still homeless people living on those tracks even today. The old port morris in the Bronx became a landfill for the locals, who then of course complained about the smell, rodents, etc. years later. The high line was abandoned for 20+ years before being rebuilt into a park. The port morris was cleaned up only recently and will likely become a fetid dumping ground once again. Abandoned tracks will be a gateway for less desirables to travel directly into the backyards of the very same crybaby homeowners who think for some reason they have it bad now.

Anyway - most interesting about the forts and such. I wasn't sure if Holden jr. was pulling my leg or not with that one. I'm not surprised about the homeless being there back then and even today. They seem to keep to themselves (though I did run into one guy much closer to Bowery Bay one day last year that told me he stays up there since further down the line is still bad at night).
  by RRChef
In regarding the NYT article about trash to energy, they picked out the quote regarding moving trash by rail. I posted a reply to that saying that they were missing the point which was that NYC burdens it's neighbors with it's trash and that the city should build plants to process trash within it's own borders. To date I got no reply. I wonder why?
  by BobLI
I wonder why the people who lived there in the 40's and 50's never complained about the freight traffic. Wasnt that the boom years for freight on LI?
And the steam engines there too? It must be yuppie land in that area now.
  by Kamen Rider
No, just a bunch of self centered egotists who have seem to forget the live in the largest and densest city in the country.
  by DogBert
NY&A/CSX should never have even taken their whining complaint calls. By agreeing to come get the trash at 5AM they've given these people a victory and the impression in their minds that they can demand anything and get it. And csx gets to waste more fuel/time doing 2 round trips instead of one. Even better for the environment! It's interstate commerce on private property. Since when do they get any say at all?
  by DogBert
Probably. It's like telemarketers though, best ignored.

I've been happy to see CSX coming back from the island around 7 lately. I'm sure there's someone down by Christ The King standing by the overpass with a watch detailing when they come and go, their faces turning red in anger those two hours past departure time that they're stuck standing there.
  by Kamen Rider
They should just get a life and live with it. There are only a handful of moves in or out every day. imagine if they lived in North Platte? They'd be going nuts.
  by ncvab
May 7, 2010
A Landfill’s Closing Alters How a Neighborhood Views Freight Trains
The New York Times

For decades, the people of Middle Village observed a rough truce with the freight trains that rumble through their Queens neighborhood. They did not love the hulking, clamorous boxcars and locomotives, but they understood that the trains were as much a part of the working-class row-house landscape as they were.

That tolerance began to fade when New York and other localities began shipping garbage by rail to landfills in Virginia and elsewhere. Residents now complain that they are awakened as early as 5 a.m. by the racket of idling locomotives, the clang of coupling cars and the whoosh of air brakes. On swampy summer days, they add, the garbage cars emit a revolting stench.

“Boom! Boom! Boom!” shouted Joseph Dalfino, 69, a retired dockworker who lives alongside the track, imitating the noise that he says awakens him. “Every morning, six days a week. We’re not animals. We’re people and we need to sleep. Forty years I worked night and day to buy a house, and now this is destroying my life.”

The garbage-laden trains are operated by the local New York & Atlantic Railway, which for years has shipped cargo like beer, construction debris, lumber, propane and scrap metal. But in 2007, the railway also began transporting garbage from Long Island through this area of Queens. Then, in March 2009, New York City, which had closed the Fresh Kills landfill on Staten Island, began a daily shipment to Middle Village of 10 to 12 rail cars of garbage from Bushwick. Each of those cars hauls four 22-ton containers of garbage.

In Middle Village, at a track switching point at 69th Place near Juniper Boulevard South, New York & Atlantic assembles all these garbage-filled cars, along with boxcars and hoppers loaded with a variety of products, into one train that can stretch more than 80 cars. That train waits to be coupled with a locomotive from CSX, a major East Coast rail operator, and then chugs northwest across the Hell Gate Bridge over the East River and on to Virginia.

Pasquale Cuomo, the railroad’s marketing manager, acknowledged that trains do link up as early as 5 a.m., but denied that locomotives idle for three or four hours, as some residents charge, estimating instead a half-hour of idling at most. He also denied the claims of a stench, saying that government rules require garbage to be sealed in watertight containers with 1,000-pound lids.

Moreover, Mr. Cuomo said, rail traffic today is a small fraction of what it was 50 years ago — 20 trains a week compared with 20 a day back then — and also far less than it was 25 years ago, when many of the grumbling residents had already moved into the neighborhood.

“It’s astounding to me,” Mr. Cuomo said, “that people who chose to live near a railroad are suddenly finding it an inconvenience.”

Residents remember the past differently, however, saying that 20 or 30 years ago a passing freight train was a serendipitous novelty, and they would gleefully point out the colorful boxcars to their children.

The complaints began two years ago, when the assembly site was half a mile away, near Christ the King Regional High School. The school protested that the garbage-filled cars were parked for hours and that the smell sometimes sickened its students. Under a settlement, the site was moved to 69th Place last year, but now the problem has shifted to that area, where Mr. Dalfino and other critics live.

Anthony Pedalino, 63, a purchasing manager who lives one block from the tracks, has kept a log of noise and smell from the boxcars.

“On Saturday, 4/17/10, two locomotives idled north of 69th Lane for around 30 minutes, then continued south with about 20 cars in tow,” reads one of Mr. Pedalino’s entries. “Why this train has to idle and sound its horn is beyond me.”

“A train pulled up at 5 a.m. and left at 5:24 a.m.,” reads another entry. “VERY LOUD!!!! Is there any help in sight?”

In an interview, Mr. Pedalino said, “This is like waterboarding.”

Some of the worst offenses, residents said, occur on holiday weekends, when smelly cars can sit for three or four days waiting for a locomotive crew. Some residents say they are embarrassed to have weekend barbecues.

“You bought a house next to the railroad, not a rail yard,” said Robert F. Holden, a professor of graphic arts at New York City College of Technology, who lives near the tracks and is president of the Juniper Park Civic Association. “They are using our backyards as a rail yard, to work on the train, test the brakes, set off whistles.”

Mr. Cuomo counters that residents often confuse household trash with construction debris, which is covered with netting but emits little smell. Only rail cars with construction debris would be allowed to sit in place over a long weekend, he said.

He also said residents should be aware that trains kept hundreds of fuel-guzzling, smelly garbage trucks off the roads, and that 2,000 nonrailroad jobs depended on the functioning of his railroad.

Kathy Dawkins, a spokeswoman for the city’s Sanitation Department, referring specifically to the trash taken to Middle Village that originates in Bushwick, said that it was secured in state-of-the-art, odor-controlling containers and that the “dwell time” at 69th Place was typically under two hours. As to nighttime operations, she deferred to the railroad, saying, “Neither the department nor the city has jurisdiction over railroads.”

The residents have met with railroad officials over the problems, but they have not been mollified.

“It smells like you’re living in a garbage dump,” Mr. Holden said.
  by Johnny F
After reading the Times article, I came away with the idea that a lot of these people are upset because their property is no longer just next to the tracks (where a train will pass after a few minutes) but to a rail yard, where trains sits for a period of time under power. The type of activity has changed over the years, but being next to rails is always a bit "risky". This is a diffrent situation that the one in Long Island City, where folks are complaining about the yard - LIC has been a yard since the 1860s, no change in activity there. Just south of Middle Village, there is an old interchange yard south of the bridge that carries the line over the Montauk division - is this yard still in use? Is there a reason that this yard can't be used to assemble/stage the garbage trains?
  by Kamen Rider
That IS the yard everyone's been discussing, Fresh Pond. The yard is not really large enough to hold an entire train coming from/going to the bridge, so the final asembly of the consist often take place on the Bay ridge/Freemont level, which has been happening to some degree since the NYCR opened 92 years ago, which is before most of the houses imedatly adjacent to the track were built and before the large majoirty of reseidents of the area were born. Thier complent stems from the fact there was a drop in freight activity for many years, but it picked up over the last decade.

Our colective answer is "tough ----, You bought a home next to the tracks, you have to live with it or leave."
  by Johnny F
I'm talking about the interchange yard on the Fremont level, not the Fresh Pond yards. Funny how the New Haven didn't have any problems using this yard with longer trains bound for Bay Ridge. Don't be so quick to tell people they're wrong.

"Our colective answer is "tough" - you're the official spokesperson now? Way too quick to bash me, that's why these things go nowhere - knee-jerk reactions while the various associations take their time and go slow and easy. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for rail service and do believe these folks are off-base, but that doesn't mean that their isn't room for a rational compromise. Times have changed, whether you want to acknowledge it or not. This "the railroads were here before you" attitude, while true, will get you nowhere in the long-run.