Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).

Moderator: GirlOnTheTrain

  by JayMan
Check out this fantasy map of the NYC subway. This is the first version. Though probably a feasible design for the system, the emphasis is on the fantasy considering how unlikely any of this is to be built any time soon.


  by efin98
not bad, slight changes from current map but the most logical extentions and new construction.

Any way you can add a commentary as to what you want to happen for we novices that can't see some of the more minute changes though? I can see three major changes but beyond that I can't make heads or tails of what was changed.

  by JayMan

Completion of the Second Ave Subway along planned route plus an extension into the Bronx along 3rd Ave to Fordham Rd (with connection to the IRT at 149 St and 138 St).

2nd Av Sub Broadway line extends beyond the planned Lexington Ave/125 St terminus to Broadway along 125 St, providing a northern Manhattan Crosstown there.

F/V extended along Hillside Ave in Queens from its present terminus of 179 St to Springfield Blvd to pick up riders from the heavily busses route.

E extended from Jamaica Center along Merrick Blvd to Locust Manor.

7 Extended west to Javits Convention Center along the presently proposed route.

Culver Express service restored to Church Ave. G train terminates there allowing F to run express.

Astoria Line Extended to LaGuardia Airport. Line is to run north of Ditmars Blvd to LGA Marine air terminal. W peak direction and midday express service restored to speed trip from Midtown to Airport.

A few free transfer connections have been set up between some stations.

And finally, the issue of how to provide subway service to Co-Op City in the Bronx. In this version I've extended the 6 part way under Pelham Bay Park to provide stops to Dreiser Loop. <6> express service extended to Pelham Bay Park station to speed access to Manhattan.

Really I don't see a practical way to give Co-Op City subway access -- this map is only one of a few versions I've cooked up that differs in how it handles that scenario.

  by Otto Vondrak
My fantasy map extends the 1/9 to Yonkers, and brings the No. 5 back over the NYWB right of way to Mount Vernon (transfer to Metro North at Columbus Ave), and extend the 6 all the way up the Shore Road to Orchard Beach (bus shuttle to City Island).

No tunnel to Staten Island from Bay Ridge?

Eh, now I'm just babbling. But it's fun to draw maps!


  by sodusbay
I like it!

How about #7 E from Flushing along Northern Blvd? That opens up a huge area of Queens.

To Co-op city use the New Haven ROW

  by JayMan
sodusbay wrote:I like it!

How about #7 E from Flushing along Northern Blvd? That opens up a huge area of Queens.

To Co-op city use the New Haven ROW
Thank you!

For the 7 along Northern Blvd that's pretty close to the existing Port Washington Branch, which has many closely spaced stations -- so that seemed kinda redundant.

By the New Haven ROW I assume you mean the trackage Amtrak presently uses?

  by NIMBYkiller
How about extending the 7 over the Whitestone Expressway and CIP to Fort Totten. It would kinda resurect the old LIRR Whitestone line service, which was supposed to go to the 7 line anyway.

And the extension of the E, why not use the LIRR tracks? LIRR currently has those 2 lines that parallel each other. Would it be possible for them to give the western one to NYC Subway?
  by JayMan
This is the third version of my fantasy map of the NYC subway, which includes a more optimal arrangement of service.


I've taken some of the suggestions offered here, and along with some digging done on my own, came up with this version.

Feel free to comment! I'd like to know what you folks things! :)
  by Mike Roque
I must say...in addition addition to the wonderful ideas presented in the map itself, this an awesome topic!

  by Irish Chieftain
Hmm...lemme see what I can offer:
  • R-train in Brooklyn still doesn't cross the Narrows into SI
  • Canarsie line still stops dead at Rockaway Parkway (used to go to Canarsie Pier)
  • How about adding that proposed PATH-Lex Ave Line connection for kicks?
  • Is there room to stick in a 125th-street crosstown line...?
  • Might as well throw in a 9th Avenue subway (after all, 9th and 10th Avenues used to have els)
  • Are we averse to extending els beyond their termini? 1 train can go further north; 2 train in Brooklyn can go further south on Nostrand, for a couple of examples...

  by NIMBYkiller
I say bring those lines that terminate on Nostrand to KCC

And that 9th av line, why not extend the L up the west side to the GWBBT?
  by JayMan
This is the 4th incarnation of my map. As you may see, many of your suggestions have been incorporated.


A few issues remain however:

How to bring subway service to SE Brooklyn (should we extend the 2 south)?

How to generally speed access to Lower Manhattan.

How to speed service on long local routes (IRT Broadway line, BMT Broadway line) with no good express tracks.

  by NIMBYkiller
Yeah, just bring the 2/5 further down Nostrand to Manhattan Beach/KCC.

  by JayMan
NIMBYkiller wrote:Yeah, just bring the 2/5 further down Nostrand to Manhattan Beach/KCC.
I'm experimenting with an idea for SE Brooklyn service that will involve the Second Ave Subway Brooklyn extension. Stay tuned! :)

  by matt1168
That SAS looks great!

I think it's interesting the way you incorporated your LGA line into the Queens Blvd. line-- I've always just assumed that a Flushing extentsion.

Also, great idea with the P taking the place of the E out in Jamaica, to allow for more trains running on the new extension up north!

The only thing is that there is still a large area of Queens on your map that is still pretty much unserved by transit.

Also, nice job finally using the 63rd St. subway to its full potential!