Amtrak/LIRR Moynihan Train Hall

The reality is that the space that Amtrak will be leaving might not be all that useful to NJT or LIRR. I will venture to guess that the space is primarily composed of the circular Amtrak-only waiting area plus the ticket counters and the baggage checking station. None of these areas have convenient access to the typical LIRR tracks. The waiting area could be useful to NJT for expanding their waiting space on upper level, but this is NJT -- do you expect them to have the foresight and the money to pay Amtrak and get the area converted to extra waiting space (which will be especially useful during service disruptions)?

What Penn really needs is (1) more access stairs and escalators at the low numbered tracks and (2) more space on the lower level where most of the LIRR commuters wait for their train to be announced. The first thing involves spending more money that NJT does not have and the second either booting some of the existing retail or some of the railroad personnel space (and finding them space elsewhere).

The digging at the spot of the former track 5A continues. It appears that they have reached about 5 feet below the grade of the other tracks. I find it fascinating and unexplained what exactly they are planning to do there.

Another relatively recent development is that the taxi stand in front of the main entrance on 7th avenue has been moved to the south. Now the yellow cabs line up in front of the entrance at all times making a crowded crosswalk even worse. I have no idea who at NYDOT came up with this idea, but he must have never been there at rush hour trying to cross 7th Avenue.

So has the Moynihan renovating started? What is the estimated complete date?

EuroStar wrote:The reality is that the space that Amtrak will be leaving might not be all that useful to NJT or LIRR. I will venture to guess that the space is primarily composed of the circular Amtrak-only waiting area plus the ticket counters and the baggage checking station. None of these areas have convenient access to the typical LIRR tracks. The waiting area could be useful to NJT for expanding their waiting space on upper level, but this is NJT -- do you expect them to have the foresight and the money to pay Amtrak and get the area converted to extra waiting space (which will be especially useful during service disruptions)?

If you blow open the enclosed circular waiting area, you create a straight-shot between the main entrance on 7th and the staircases by 8th. This isn't exactly a high cost project, it simply involves opening the waiting area on both ends.

This in turn would encourage NJT passengers to not crowd the NJT concourse and spread out into the Amtrak area, especially with the siren call of ample seating. I think it would drastically reduce crowding for NJT boarding, which in turn speeds things up, because riders would then be boarding on both ends of the platform.

Can NJT customers do it now? Sure, and savvy riders know to wait over in Amtrak land. But obviously not enough people realize this can be done if you see the current way crowds are distributed.

This doesnt help LIRR, but they already have their new empty concourse across 8th avenue if they want. Except theres no seating over there because that would make sense and we cant have sense.

This is a good point. Removing Amtrak's waiting rooms would open up a massive area, which already has track entrances around it. The main concourse could be returned to more of its original layout re: the original station. Overall, this could be a massively great opportunity for NJT to have a proper waiting area, since it's 7 Ave concourse is overcrowded now during peak times.

jamesinclair wrote:
This in turn would encourage NJT passengers to not crowd the NJT concourse and spread out into the Amtrak area, especially with the siren call of ample seating. I think it would drastically reduce crowding for NJT boarding, which in turn speeds things up, because riders would then be boarding on both ends of the platform.

Can NJT customers do it now? Sure, and savvy riders know to wait over in Amtrak land. But obviously not enough people realize this can be done if you see the current way crowds are distributed.

This doesnt help LIRR, but they already have their new empty concourse across 8th avenue if they want. Except theres no seating over there because that would make sense and we cant have sense.

So long before there was a NJ Transit concourse on the 7th Ave side of the station, the only way to board a NJ Transit train was from the Amtrak concourse or the lower level below the Amtrak concourse. Every weekday those areas are still filled with commuters waiting for NJ Transit trains so it's not limited to savvy riders. Spend some time on the lower level on the West end of the station some evening rush hour and you will no longer think there is a problem with how the crowds are distributed.

The new West End concourse only goes down to track 5 but there are new signs indicating how to get to tracks 1-4 at the top of the platform for 5/6 and at the first set of stairs up to the lower level. That new concourse is filling up with LIRR commuters weeknights.

Agree - I use the WEC daily, and it's quite filled with LIRR customers - sometimes it's nearly impassable by the 8 Ave exit at 33rd. And savvy NJT riders use it, too - as a way to avoid going into the station proper.

The West End Concourse and Moynihan station projects were sorely needed and moreso today as gas prices are on the rise again.

Once Moynihan station opens, they can start redoing the other parts of Penn Station in phases. MTA has also started work redoing the subway stations by Penn Station as well.

The Amtrak part of Penn Station now I presume will be opened up so NJ Transit customers will have more room when Moynihan station is complete.

The whole nature of Penn Station today is a mess with NJ Transit, Amtrak and LIRR. The West End Concourse has improved access but more still needs to be done.

Work on the Empire tunnel is in progress. From casual inspection it seems that the track bed is being lowered even though it is hard to know for sure given that the new track has not been ballasted. This is consistent with the needs of the Gateway Tunnels which require the tracks in that area to be lowered. Track segments are back in the track bed next to the postal platform, but still are not connected at the ends. I was not able to identify what has been changed in the track configuration there. Seems a bit weird to have been just track renewal.

So is there a web site that shows the status of the Moynihan Station construction, provides update reports. Has anyone seen something like this? Is the construction still scheduled to be done by 2020?

Amtrak says 2021: https://nec.amtrak.com/project/moynihan-station/

EuroStar wrote:Work on the Empire tunnel is in progress. From casual inspection it seems that the track bed is being lowered even though it is hard to know for sure given that the new track has not been ballasted. This is consistent with the needs of the Gateway Tunnels which require the tracks in that area to be lowered. Track segments are back in the track bed next to the postal platform, but still are not connected at the ends. I was not able to identify what has been changed in the track configuration there. Seems a bit weird to have been just track renewal.

I thought the Empire Tunnel had no ballast and was direct fixation?

Regarding the area east of the tunnel - from my high-up viewpoint nearby it seems some of that track area in the still open-air is being used to stage construction equipment for the Hudson yards development happening over the tracks - the park that's being built.

JamesRR wrote:I thought the Empire Tunnel had no ballast and was direct fixation?

Regarding the area east of the tunnel - from my high-up viewpoint nearby it seems some of that track area in the still open-air is being used to stage construction equipment for the Hudson yards development happening over the tracks - the park that's being built.

I am not part of the work crew so I have no idea what they have done so far inside the tunnel itself. I can only observe the east end within Yard A where the track was ballasted and it appears that it will be ballasted in the future too.

About 2:00 into this video it appears to be direct fixation all the way through

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uI39ybIo8x0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Empire tunnel is direct fixation. Swiss ties through much of it.