Mount Washington Cog Railway

3rdrail, in my humble opinion, we can attempt to deal with all the real issues that we'd like, but it's still a rail enthusiast's website. I don't pretend that things we say or do carry much weight on the outside.

If the intent is to notify management about something potentially against the Cog's policy, there are better ways to do it. If the intent is to BMC about it, likewise. I've done many things on tours on and off the railroad, and have seen people ask for a tip elsewhere. If you like it, and they did a good job, go for it. If not, then don't...I just don't see what the animosity is about. Perhaps that needs to be a separate thread.

Dave Becker

Although I did not read the original post I think that it is appropriate to introduce the topic of tipping on the Mount Washington Cog Railway (MWCR). Tips are gratuties given to providers of personal services. I frequently travel on AMTRAK and appropriately tip the sleeping car attendants, dining car waitstaff, and redcaps for the personal service they render to me. I do not tip the conductors, assistant conductors, or engineers. On a recent trip on the MWCR I did not respond to the request for tips because no personal services were rendered. I also found the pressure to tip on the MWCR very offensive. There was a sign posted in the passenger car which read "Tips Appreciated for a Job Well Done," there was a verbal pitch by the car attendant at the end of the trip, and finally a gauntlet of employees to run upon exiting the car. The reason for this three pronged pressure for tips is simply that it is a non-tipping situation and no one would think about tipping without being solicited. I have taken trips on the Cass Scenic Railway, the Manitou and Pikes Peak Railway, and the Georgetown Loop Railroad and there were no solicitations on any of those tourist railroads and I didn't observe anyone tipping at the end of these trips since once again it is a non-tipping situation as is the case on the MWSR.

I will only say this, If I ever consider riding the Mount Washington Cog Railway again and it is unlikely with diesel power, I
will first watch an arriving train and if I think the people are pressured to tip, I will not buy a ticket and ride up but rather
drive around to Pinkham Notch and use the auto road.
As I said earlier, the railroad should be doing well enough to be able go pay their loyal and dedicated employees enough of a
wage so that tipping is not necessary.
In the railroad passenger industry for many, many years it was customary to tip pullman and parlor car porters and dining
car personnel as well as red caps all of whom are railroad employees. As for operating employees such as engineers,
conductors and trainpersons, it is not only not the custom but such employees are generally not permitted to accept tips.
I remember once while working passenger trains between New York and New Haven one evening upon arrival at New Haven
I found a brief case in the head car that had been left behind. I found a name, address and telephone number, called the
owner and he met me on my train at Darien as I was returning to New York. I tried to get me to take a reward but I would
not accept it, he wrote a letter to the company and the superintendent who had a dislike toward me over issues, had to
write me a letter. I still have that letter and it is worth far more than any tip that this gentleman could have given me.
In my 41 years working on the railroad the only tip I ever received was my paycheck and the satisfaction that I did my job
to the best of my ability at all times. NOTHING ELSE
Noel Weaver

What are you trying to say pablo? We can't discuss a practice of the cog railway in the proper forum? If the cog decides to let there conductors ask for tips i believe its fair game for discussion. I didn't see the post that was deleted earlier(I'm sure it was probably justified) but everything else posted seems like good discussion. Are we to only supposed to talk about rosey subjects here? That would be pretty dumb.

pablo wrote:I don't pretend that things we say or do carry much weight on the outside.

If the intent is to notify management about something potentially against the Cog's policy, there are better ways to do it.

If you believe that comment then we might as well delete 90% of the posts on this site.

#501 wrote:This is probably a little off topic but does anyone know if a model steam cog has ever been built? Ho scale or something? Just wondering

They listed their loco as a rack rail locomotive. May help you in a search for one.
Mike

I don't especially care what people think about my opinions. I just see a lot of people getting fired up about incomplete information. No one from the Cog has posted here, so it seems to me like we are all guessing. You don't know, Triker, if the railway is actually letting their workers do this. If the railway didn't allow it, and the workers did it anyway, there are better ways to get the problem solved than whining here. If that's too difficult an idea to comprehend, then so be it. I similarly stand by the rest of my comments.

Dave Becker

pablo wrote:I don't especially care what people think about my opinions. I just see a lot of people getting fired up about incomplete information. No one from the Cog has posted here, so it seems to me like we are all guessing. You don't know, Triker, if the railway is actually letting their workers do this. If the railway didn't allow it, and the workers did it anyway, there are better ways to get the problem solved than whining here. If that's too difficult an idea to comprehend, then so be it. I similarly stand by the rest of my comments.

Dave Becker

Is this a joke post ? Incomplete information ? Such as all the unconnected persons, including myself, who report the same activity ? Guessing if management allows this ? Hmm - Let's see now. The activity has been going on for many years, as the span of reports indicates. People have been disappointed about this activity for years and I would imagine a percentage of those persons have complained to management. (I myself witnessed such a complaint at the company gift store.) We have seen a review of the Cog from a patron who reported intimidation, reporting the soliciting to the Cog and not receiving a reply. We have a post on this thread from an acknowedged "cogger" who reports that he himself has received tips. "Solicitors" stand within view of the company office at the base when collecting tips. My guess is that they know about it, Dave. Ridiculing Triker's level of comprehension isn't going to change the facts. Your argument is getting pretty weak if it isn't in jest, in my opinion.

miketrainnut wrote:

#501 wrote:This is probably a little off topic but does anyone know if a model steam cog has ever been built? Ho scale or something? Just wondering

They listed their loco as a rack rail locomotive. May help you in a search for one.
Mike

thankyou Mike

heres an idea: if you don't want to tip, then don't tip. there is a reason its called a tip.
problem solved.
now stop whining.

tjm304 wrote:heres an idea: if you don't want to tip, then don't tip. there is a reason its called a tip.
problem solved.
now stop whining.

I believe your missing the point. It's the employees that have the audacity to ask for a tip. From the sounds of it, there almost shoving a bucket in the customers face demanding a tip.

As I have said now three times, if you don't like it, complaining here will accomplish exactly nothing. As has also been said here, if you don't wat to tip, then don't. Perhaps you missed my post, 3rdrail, where this is not something that hasn't happened elsewhere, too. Don't tip. Simple as that.

If this tip/no tip issue has offended everyone's delicate sensibilities so much, then stay home and post on the internet instead of doing anything. You'll never be asked to tip your computer, unless you get a virus, and there's no sense in complaining about that, either.

Dave Becker

pablo wrote: Perhaps you missed my post, 3rdrail, where this is not something that hasn't happened elsewhere, too.
Dave Becker

In the railroad or tourist railroad industry ? Where else does this occur ? Or, in a desperate attempt to support your insulting and boorish posts, have you chosen to merely obliquely suggest that this happens ? (Oops, I guess that I did catch your post. By the way Dave, now with your assertion that I too may be missing things, I guess that Triker and myself can find comfort that we're not alone, and guided by one who is so astute !)

I've done many things on tours on and off the railroad, and have seen people ask for a tip elsewhere.

I've never seen this on a railroad, but I have seen this in areas whether it be straight tourist, or more of a historical organization, or in one case that is probably my best example, at a "wildlife preserve" that is supposed to be charged with taking care of animals and giving you a tour of the facilities.

It does happen. If you'd like to keep this going, so be it. Feel free to think it doesn't happen, and so be it. You also continue to miss the point here: if you don't like it, don't do it. If you don't like this path, how about contacting the railroad and complaining to them? Have you done that? It doesn't sound like you have, and therefore, what are we really talking about here? Think a bit more about it, and why don't you complain to the railroad, where perhaps something could actually be done about it?

Dave Becker

pablo wrote: You also continue to miss the point here
Dave Becker

Oh, darn - there I've gone and missed another point ! Dave, I wouldn't go and make the classic assertion of what you make out of yourself as a result of making assumptions, as unlike yourself, I don't feel the need to appear superior to, and berate other's opinions. If you feel threatened by this thread and feel the need to dominate it, my suggestion is to merely go away. You and I are not moderators here. We are merely posters with opinions, nothing more. If you must exercise your self-perceived dominance over other posters and pretend that you are the voice of reason, attempting to demean as you do so, go back to the Amtrak threads where you have that (giggle) power and can delete to your heart's content.

3rdrail wrote:

pablo wrote: You also continue to miss the point here
Dave Becker

Oh, darn - there I've gone and missed another point ! Dave, I wouldn't go and make the classic assertion of what you make out of yourself as a result of making assumptions, as unlike yourself, I don't feel the need to appear superior to, and berate other's opinions. If you feel threatened by this thread and feel the need to dominate it, my suggestion is to merely go away. You and I are not moderators here. We are merely posters with opinions, nothing more. If you must exercise your self-perceived dominance over other posters and pretend that you are the voice of reason, attempting to demean as you do so, go back to the Amtrak threads where you have that (giggle) power and can delete to your heart's content.

Been reading this for a long time now. I totally agree with you 3rdrail.
Giving a tip to someone for doing a good job is one thing, asking for a tip because you thought you did a good job is a totally differant thing.