More Tunnel News

Amtrak announced yesterday that (2) of the (4) East River tunnels and both Hudson River tunnels will need to be taken out of service (one at a time) to repair damage from Sandy.

The effects on rush hour service between New York and New Jersey would be drastic.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/02/nyreg ... =eta1&_r=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ken

I read the same article this morning. It is far worse. The article goes on to say that the Hudson River tubes were filled half-way with water, and will need to be shut for extended times too after the East River job.
" shutting one of the two tracks in the tunnel under the Hudson River would cut service by about 75 percent because trains headed into New York would have to share the remaining track with trains headed west from the city, he said..." Not sure why 75% and not 50%, but guessing because of the dead time when switching directions. Or maybe someone misspoke or the reporter got it wrong. In any case just about unimaginable for NJ commuters.
In any case Amtrak is playing their trump card for new Hudson River tunnels. Not sure if NJT riders should be happy or sad. JS

Question: could/should Amtrak ever consider telling NJT that-- because of the tunnel restrictions--NJT service would not be allowed in the tunnels while the reduced capacity is in effect?
I agree with pumpers: this is going to put some leverage on moving the Gateway tunnel project forward.

Rockingham Racer wrote:Question: could/should Amtrak ever consider telling NJT that-- because of the tunnel restrictions--NJT service would not be allowed in the tunnels while the reduced capacity is in effect?
I agree with pumpers: this is going to put some leverage on moving the Gateway tunnel project forward.

I think with 6 trains an hour Amtrak would not quite use all of them. I think Amtrak averages about 4 trains an hour through the north river tunnels on weekdays.

If NJT can get Amtrak to agree to not run any trains against peak for one or two hours a day each direction and if Sunnyside has the storage space, 24 trains an hour could still run. Right?

I think the first result of this would be an end to Midtown direct service. All trains into and out of the city would be multilevel and the maximum length. If the other half of waterfront is built, we may see NECL and many more NJCL trains in Hoboken. Would this make Hoboken over capacity? PATH service would be a nightmare.

Would it be possible to "flood" or just constantly spray and pump fresh water in the tunnels to try to wash the salt out?

Also how come nobody ever proposes a long running series of weekend (or long weekend) shutdowns and other measures to do the work with the tunnel in service?

http://www.wnyc.org/story/amtrak-tunnels/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.dropbox.com/s/29p6l17h8ai6j ... df?dl=0%20" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Amtrak officials said on Wednesday that they will have to sharply curtail use of the century-old rail tunnels leading to New York City for at least a year

Oh man... if these delays are going to be as bad as the NYT projects, its gonna be UGLY. UGLY! Ugly.

I'm guessing more buses from the NJ side, worse tunnel traffic and ME trying to catch the ferry a bit more often....

Part of me hopes this is a "play" by the agencies to get Gateway in motion and that the real required time will be far less, but... well, the damage is really there so either way it's not good.

BigDell wrote:I'm guessing more buses from the NJ side, worse tunnel traffic and ME trying to catch the ferry a bit more often....

People would rather take a bus than go to Hoboken o.0 PATH drops people off a block from Penn Station...is that really the end of the world?

BigDell wrote:

Amtrak officials said on Wednesday that they will have to sharply curtail use of the century-old rail tunnels leading to New York City for at least a year

Oh man... if these delays are going to be as bad as the NYT projects, its gonna be UGLY. UGLY! Ugly.

I'm guessing more buses from the NJ side, worse tunnel traffic and ME trying to catch the ferry a bit more often....

Part of me hopes this is a "play" by the agencies to get Gateway in motion and that the real required time will be far less, but... well, the damage is really there so either way it's not good.

I am guessing there will not be more buses through the Lincoln tunnel. As over capacity Penn Station is, the PA bus terminal is worse. Once work on the GWB bus terminal is completed there should be room for expansion there. The Holland Tunnel has very little bus traffic, but is not close to Penn Station and all buses that go though it must make street stops, which NJT has had a hard time getting approval for.

Only if it were possible to open up were the ARC tunnels were supposed to be and used that and finished what was to be of the ARC tunnels.

Guess we will see NJ TRANSIT terminating At Newark Penn or Seacacus. I will be hoping the PATH @Newark to 34th /Herald Square. This is going to be a nightmare.

I conjecture that many employers will allow telecommuting where that is feasible if not every day, at least many days per week or month. That could considerably reduce the NJT passenger load.

sammy2009 wrote:Guess we will see NJ TRANSIT terminating At Newark Penn or Seacacus. I will be hoping the PATH @Newark to 34th /Herald Square. This is going to be a nightmare.

Can Secaucus be used as a terminus? Even if it can, what would be its advantage over Newark Penn or Hoboken via the waterfront? If only one tunnel is being used there shouldn't be an issue with the waterfront being one way because traffic to/from the New York will be reduced.

How feasible would it be to close the tunnels at night and do the work then and leave the tunnels open during the day for trains to pass through? Sorta like a rinse and repeat process every day.

ALP46A 4662 wrote:How feasible would it be to close the tunnels at night and do the work then and leave the tunnels open during the day for trains to pass through? Sorta like a rinse and repeat process every day.

IIRC, that is done on most if not all weeknights.