Discussion of Canadian Passenger Rail Services such as AMT (Montreal), Go Transit (Toronto), VIA Rail, and other Canadian Railways and Transit

Moderator: Ken V

  by dowlingm
 
A 60Hz system is surely more likely that a 25Hz system unless technology advances have equalized transformer core weight/size. That rules out everything south of and including NYP, and leaves MBTA (Fairmount?), SLE (unlikely unless top speed could come up substantially) or Denver, surely.

The Princeton branch should be severed and redone as light rail/tramway anyway - it's a ridiculous anachronism.
  by Pensyfan19
 
As the REM subways have stated testing on the one route where the MR-90s used to run, many of them have been stored at St. Jerome and are now being ferried to the EXO yard in Pointe St-Charles. Anyone know what might happen to these interesting EMUs, ro if anyone might be interested in buying them (possibly for a cheap price)?
  by andrewjw
 
Pensyfan19 wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:31 pm As the REM subways have stated testing on the one route where the MR-90s used to run, many of them have been stored at St. Jerome and are now being ferried to the EXO yard in Pointe St-Charles. Anyone know what might happen to these interesting EMUs, ro if anyone might be interested in buying them (possibly for a cheap price)?
See the previous page. It seems unlikely really anyone would be interested in buying them - they're too slow for PennDOT, CTDOT, or MARC, too old for Caltrain, RTD, or Mexico City (older than any electric trains currently running on those systems), and too old for SEPTA or NJT (though these systems currently run older electric trains, all older trains will be replaced by on-order units). Furthermore, as noted above, they're electrically incompatible with MARC, SEPTA/PennDOT, and most of NJT. (My post on the previous page stated MARC was 12.5 kV 60 Hz incorrectly - they are 12.5 kV 25 Hz. It also predated NJT and SEPTA's announcement of their intent to purchase BBD MLV III EMUs to replace all their older EMUs.)

If you must hold out hope, consider that the MBTA a) is chronically short on budget b) has stated an intent to electrify the Franklin, P-S, and inner N-R lines (and future South Coast Rail) and c) is chronically short on rolling stock. Just like METRA has swept up old gallery cars from a variety of other operators over time, I could imagine MBTA buying up the MR90s if they decided to move forward with electrification, or just to run them on the Providence route to alleviate rolling stock shortages - they'd run as-is there. They'd be operationally inconvenient, since their top speed is quite limited and the Providence line runs 150MPH trains, but the MBTA diesel top speed is 79 mph so it would not be too different to run the MR-90s at their 75MPH design speed. Honestly, I started out this paragraph not believing in the MBTA as a possible location for re-use, but I've managed to halfway convince myself here. I still expect that, no matter how sensible it would seem, the MBTA is very unlikely to acquire the MR-90s and they will likely be scrapped.
  by west point
 
Isn't MARC operating on Amtrak which at last I heard is only nominal 12.0 Kv 25 HZ. That of course is +/- 10%
  by R36 Combine Coach
 
Could there be interest for a coach conversion (read: Arrow I)?

The only place south of New Haven where they can run as-is would be the Hoboken Division. Unless the
Silverliner IV replacements are delayed for years and a stopgap is needed. Recall that the 68 Arrow IIs
were considered to replace the 35 year old Silverliner IIs in 1998.
  by Bill R.
 
Two questions:

1) I recall reading that the cars would be transferred to Toronto in support of the system electrification there. Is that not an option?

2) Any chance that a new Mount Royal tunnel might be built for the St. Jerome line and the Mascouche line (via a new ramp north of Chabanel) in the near future? If so, would appropriately enhanced service levels on both lines require retention of the EMU cars?
  by dowlingm
 
They could be used in Toronto, whenever Metrolinx actually manage to string wire, but closest service fit would be as a replacement for the 18 (newer) Nippon Sharyo Tier 4 DMUs to Pearson Airport, especially if Metrolinx could make some $ reselling them to Sonoma Marin or Portland. A large impediment is that the door positions are different which would trigger works at both terminals.

They could possibly be also used as a short turn service between Union and Bramalea, with ex-EXO ALP45s handling bilevel sets beyond that point into CN diesel territory to Kitchener.
  by electricron
 
They are too slow for regional intercity trains, but are great commuter rail EMIs. Where in North America are commuter rail agencies using 25KV 60 Hz EMUs, or planning to and needs them? Most US commuter rail agencies are desiring multilevel trains except for the few with limited height tunnels. Single level EMUs have few agencies wanting them. I'm thinking the best location to try to market these as interim solutions is in California where they wish to electrify everything possible.
  by scratchyX1
 
electricron wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:41 am They are too slow for regional intercity trains, but are great commuter rail EMIs. Where in North America are commuter rail agencies using 25KV 60 Hz EMUs, or planning to and needs them? Most US commuter rail agencies are desiring multilevel trains except for the few with limited height tunnels. Single level EMUs have few agencies wanting them. I'm thinking the best location to try to market these as interim solutions is in California where they wish to electrify everything possible.
It's a shame they couldn't be run on Amtrak.
The MTA 2002 transit plan had a pink line, which was regional service between BWI and martins.
iirc, there's outside tracks south of the city (up to Winans interlocking) which would keep them out of the way of 100 mph+ trains, and it's pretty much all under 75 until after Martins.
There would need to be a flyover, for them to cross over and turnaround, after BWI (and martins), but if the old tunnels were kept for a connection to the subway, and new stations at west Baltimore, Martins, and around Bayview, the 90s could be viable for single person crew vehicles, until a new order could be made (for combined VRE/MARC regional service)
  by electricron
 
scratchyX1 wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:25 am It's a shame they couldn't be run on Amtrak.
The MTA 2002 transit plan had a pink line, which was regional service between BWI and martins.
iirc, there's outside tracks south of the city (up to Winans interlocking) which would keep them out of the way of 100 mph+ trains, and it's pretty much all under 75 until after Martins.
There would need to be a flyover, for them to cross over and turnaround, after BWI (and martins), but if the old tunnels were kept for a connection to the subway, and new stations at west Baltimore, Martins, and around Bayview, the 90s could be viable for single person crew vehicles, until a new order could be made (for combined VRE/MARC regional service)
The NEC south of New York City is 12KV 25 Hz, not anywhere close to 25KV 60 Hz equipment on these EMUs.
The only section of the NEC with 25KV 60 Hz catenaries is between New Haven and Boston.
  by ConstanceR46
 
I mean, Cali, the MBTA, and CDOT all seem like good options - Keolis could use them when they inagurate electric service on the NEC and CDOT could use them for SLE as opposed to or in addition to M8s. Perhaps these could be used solely on the "Core" SLE services while the M8s could be used running into GCT or Penn?
  by west point
 
R46; Not a bad idea. SLE really does not know how a post C-19 ridership and also MNRR's loads. Until the post C-19 ridership becomes apparent any predictions are just a WAG.
The units would need modification for a tap changing system to handle 12.5 and 25 Kv CAT. Have no idea how much that would cost ?






?
  by MattW
 
Hopefully one or two sets wind up in a museum, but other than that, there's no practical use for them anywhere. They're slow, can only run under 60Hz electrification, and probably only 25kV as well. That limits them to Caltrain, SLE east of New Haven (exclusive), MBTA Providence Line, Denver, and Toronto (and not yet). Caltrain and Toronto as new systems getting new rolling stock have no use for old trainsets. Likewise SLE's exclusion of New Haven means they wouldn't want them. MBTA is maybe the only option, but they're so different than anything else nearby, it makes little sense to use them. I sometimes don't get the railfan fascination with continuing to use old equipment. Preserve, yes. At least one example of every piece of equipment should be preserved somewhere, but most equipment when it's retired, is just done! If something can find second use on a tourist line, great, but that line doesn't have nearly the rigors of commuter service like sending them to one of the above agencies would. It's the same with the Acela Is. Once the Acela IIs have fully replaced the Is, the only place they might make sense is on the Keystone, but even that's a stretch.