• Metro-North New Haven Line Penn Station Access

  • This forum will be for issues that don't belong specifically to one NYC area transit agency, but several. For instance, intra-MTA proposals or MTA-wide issues, which may involve both Metro-North Railroad (MNRR) and the Long Island Railroad (LIRR). Other intra-agency examples: through running such as the now discontinued MNRR-NJT Meadowlands special. Topics which only concern one operating agency should remain in their respective forums.
This forum will be for issues that don't belong specifically to one NYC area transit agency, but several. For instance, intra-MTA proposals or MTA-wide issues, which may involve both Metro-North Railroad (MNRR) and the Long Island Railroad (LIRR). Other intra-agency examples: through running such as the now discontinued MNRR-NJT Meadowlands special. Topics which only concern one operating agency should remain in their respective forums.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, nomis, FL9AC, Jeff Smith

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  by Jeff Smith
 
Are they getting ready to bid? Found this just now.

3 Firms May Bid On New Hell Gate Commuter Line
NEW YORK — A list of firms who can handle the project to build a new commuter line linking Connecticut and Westchester County with western Manhattan was released Wednesday morning by the Metropolitan Transportation Authority. The Metro-North Penn Access Project will bring New Haven Line service into Penn Station by 2024.
...
The MTA anticipates up to 50,000 customer trips will be made per day on the new route, including up to 20,000 that start or end at four new stations in the Bronx. Penn Station Access is expected to draw new riders and generate major time savings for Metro-North customers.
...
The MTA is using the innovative "design-build" process in which a single firm or consortium is responsible for both the design and construction of a project. Design-build has been used successfully in recent projects such as the new Mario M. Cuomo Bridge and the LIRR Expansion Project, MTA officials said.
...
Halmar International, LLC/Railworks, JV (Ove Arup & Partners P.C., Lead Designer)
Skanska ECCO III Penn Station Connectors, JV (AECOM USA, Inc., Lead Designer)
Tutor Perini/O&G, JV (Parsons Transportation Group of New York, Inc., Lead Designer)
...
  by MNCRR9000
 
Looks like the Penn Station Access and the Grand Central Trainshed will be scrapped without Federal bailout money

Penn Station Access
Grand Central Terminal Trainshed
As the coronavirus pandemic rages on throughout the U.S., the four months of disruption can be felt by all sorts of businesses and agencies — one of which is a lifeline for millions of commuters in and around New York City.

The MTA said it can't afford to wait much longer for a federal bailout. The area's mass transit system is set to run out of emergency funding in August, and still faces a $9 billion deficit. MTA Chairman Pat Foye said that "without action by the senate, we don't have a path forward without devastating cuts."

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/traffic/tran ... oQCzUDusms
  by Pensyfan19
 
Here is the complete list of projects to be axed if the MTA does not get funding... :(
  • Metro-North Penn Station access
  • Phase II of the Second Avenue subway
  • Penn Station 33rd Street Corridor
  • Station renewals and repairs at six stations on the 7 line, and four on the J/Z lines
    Modernizing and upgrading signals on LIRR from Babylon to Patchogue, replacing two LIRR bridges, and a new LIRR station at Elmont
  • Purchasing around 650 new buses, including 23 express and 75 electric units
  • ADA accessibility at a more than 30 stations, including: Livonia Avenue, Grand Street and Lorimer Street (L train); 149 Street-Grand Concourse and Wakefield-241st Street (2, 4, 5 lines); 14th Street and Sixth-Seventh Avenues Complex (1, 2, 3, F, M, L lines); Tremont Avenue (B, D); Brook Avenue, East 149 Street, 68th Street-Hunter College and Westchester Square-East Tremont Avenue (6); Broadway and Queensboro Plaza (N, W); 181st Street, Beach 67th Street, Court Square-23rd Street (A, E); Steinway Street and Woodhaven Boulevard (M, R); Classon Avenue, Metropolitan Avenue, 7th Avenue and Court Square (G)
  • Elevator and escalator improvements at 22 subway stations
  • Grand Central Terminal trainshed

Also, is there a deadline for when the MTA must have funding by???
  by STrRedWolf
 
Pensyfan19 wrote: Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:10 pm Here is the complete list of projects to be axed if the MTA does not get funding... :(
  • Metro-North Penn Station access
  • Phase II of the Second Avenue subway
  • Penn Station 33rd Street Corridor
  • Station renewals and repairs at six stations on the 7 line, and four on the J/Z lines
    Modernizing and upgrading signals on LIRR from Babylon to Patchogue, replacing two LIRR bridges, and a new LIRR station at Elmont
  • Purchasing around 650 new buses, including 23 express and 75 electric units
  • ADA accessibility at a more than 30 stations, including: Livonia Avenue, Grand Street and Lorimer Street (L train); 149 Street-Grand Concourse and Wakefield-241st Street (2, 4, 5 lines); 14th Street and Sixth-Seventh Avenues Complex (1, 2, 3, F, M, L lines); Tremont Avenue (B, D); Brook Avenue, East 149 Street, 68th Street-Hunter College and Westchester Square-East Tremont Avenue (6); Broadway and Queensboro Plaza (N, W); 181st Street, Beach 67th Street, Court Square-23rd Street (A, E); Steinway Street and Woodhaven Boulevard (M, R); Classon Avenue, Metropolitan Avenue, 7th Avenue and Court Square (G)
  • Elevator and escalator improvements at 22 subway stations
  • Grand Central Terminal trainshed

Also, is there a deadline for when the MTA must have funding by???
I keep hearing October 1st being floated around the rumor mill. Can't remember where I heard it from.
  by Riverduckexpress
 
STrRedWolf wrote:
Pensyfan19 wrote: Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:10 pm Also, is there a deadline for when the MTA must have funding by???
I keep hearing October 1st being floated around the rumor mill. Can't remember where I heard it from.
The MTA is required under NY State law to submit a capital program October 1st before the start of each five-year period. I presume that's what you're thinking of?
(c) on or before October first, nineteen hundred ninety-nine and every fifth year thereafter, the authority shall submit to the metropolitan transportation authority capital program review board two capital program plans for the five-year period commencing January first of the following year.
(I should note that the capital program review board is a separate entity from the MTA board - the review board provides the final approval for each capital program and (ostensibly) oversight and is staffed by proxies of the New York City and state government leaders. However, the "board" is obscure and opaque, doesn't "meet" in public, and is basically just a way for the major politicians to exert their influence over the capital program, by holding power to veto it).

And to my knowledge, there is no deadline by which the MTA needs to have all the billions for each capital program lined up. The MTA and state always play fast and loose with funding - for the 2015-2019 capital program, for example, the Cuomo administration pledged $8.3 billion, but a state budget declared that ~$7 billion of those state funds would only be provided after the MTA exhausted its own financial resources - which is incredibly vague and seemingly opens up the MTA to take on even more debt than initially expected. AFAIK, the state has yet to provide the $7 billion.

To continue on a tangent - traditionally, the MTA has released 20-year capital needs assessments every five years, broadly covering their wish lists for the next 20 years, which they use to use to help develop each five-year capital program. For example, the 2015-2034 needs assessment includes proposals to expand LIRR electrification in Suffolk County and extend the Harlem Line's third track to North White Plains. Interestingly, the MTA never released one for the 2020-2039 period - though MTA leadership claimed last year that it was in development. Note that the 20-year assessments are non-binding and just for informational purposes. In the past, they actually were not required under state law. A law passed last year will require the MTA to release them every 5 years starting in 2023, however, which almost seems appropriate given the authority never released the most recent one.
  by west point
 
Several items.
1. Are the track layouts such that when ESA is complete could there be a NYP - NYG shuttle train ?
2. Flnn's letter to congress 3mentioned that the Pelham draw bridge as a necessary replacement.
3. What source does the poster cite that says that the third track across Hell gate would not be instaled to be restored track 4 ?
4. In fact once there are 4 tracks across Hell gatewhy not have all four have CAT installed and used when CSCX not using ? Amtrak and MNRR coould pay for all maintenance. ? How often does CSX use their present freight track ?
5. The west side line will need 2 MT all the way thru Spuyten.
6. The Spuyten bridge needs a 2 track fly over
7. The flyover needs to intersect the MNRR inside the MNRR tracks 2 and 3 for full access .
  by ExCon90
 
On point 7, the through tracks are numbered 4, 2, 1, 3 counting from the river in (that extra one between 4 and the river is 6). Do you mean between 1 and 2? Is there enough room?
  by Backshophoss
 
CSX runs almost daily over Hellgate(Trash trains),P&W is the other user of the CSX trackage for the stone trains(seasonal)
4th track has become a supply to maintain the CSX freight track .
DV is the point that Hudson Line turns into a 2 track mainline thru the rock cuts to Highbridge.
NO ROOM for flyover at DV believe # 6 track is the lead to Amtrak's Empire connection(aka; w30th st branch)
Amtrak has double tracked most of the line,leaving the DV bridge and he tunnel under the LIRR west side yard as the only single track sections
  by Jeff Smith
 
west point wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:19 pm Several items.
1. Are the track layouts such that when ESA is complete could there be a NYP - NYG shuttle train ?
I'm pretty sure no. Could you do it? Yes. Why? You'd have to leave Manhattan and do a roundabout routing with reverse moves; it would take way too long. Even walking would be faster.

I've always thought the solution to that was to restore service on the original IRT through GCT over to the west side. (now the "S" Shuttle"). Even then, the connection at TSQ is in the wrong direction, you'd have to reverse, cross-over, etc., and you'd be fouling tracks. I do think it's worth looking at as a regular route, i.e. the original route from City Hall to GCT, TSQ, and the Upper West Side, but not a GCT-Penn shuttle.

2. Flnn's letter to congress 3mentioned that the Pelham draw bridge as a necessary replacement.
Yes. But service could be started forthwith without this. It would be a bottleneck, yes. If you ask me, they could be doing this now given the reduced service levels (Penn is not as crowded), and without the new stations. But the draw is the East Bronx service. And frankly, they could throw up wood platforms, and run East Bronx service with M8's right now, and turn the trains at Hunts Point.
3. What source does the poster cite that says that the third track across Hell gate would not be instaled to be restored track 4 ?
Pretty sure that's in the planning doc's. There are no stops once you hit the bridge; it's not really needed. It would require massive relocation of signals, wires, etc.
4. In fact once there are 4 tracks across Hell gatewhy not have all four have CAT installed and used when CSCX not using ? Amtrak and MNRR coould pay for all maintenance. ? How often does CSX use their present freight track ?
I don't think it's used a lot; someone else posted who uses it and what for. P&W is a one-way daily train; one trip in one day, and return next. CSX is probably a bit more frequent.

Amtrak is definitely NOT going to pay for maintenance; they like their two tracks just fine. MNRR doesn't need it; they can use Amtrak ROW, and they've come to an agreement in principle, I think.

CSX will not want passenger interference, cross-overs, and catenary. Nope. Not going to do it. The catenary is already there on the two tracks; the only issue is the changeover between MNRR's system, and Amtrak's. They're going to spend a ton on extending third rail when they could just as easily use an ALP and push-pull. Stupid.
5. The west side line will need 2 MT all the way thru Spuyten.
Any MNRR access over the West Side line is a distant vision. I think a lot of it is two track already; SD bridge is single-track, as is the connecting tunnel under the West Side yards.
6. The Spuyten bridge needs a 2 track fly over
It's not the bridge, it's the connection to/from the Hudson Line. I'm not sure how the crossover's work now, but a fly-over would be incredibly complex; it's kind of a tight squeeze down there. I doubt there's room. They probably could use better switches, and a longer lead to the bridge. They talked about this for the Shell connection at New Rochelle years ago and came up with a much better solution; not using a full cross-over, just the inside two tracks. For SD, that would be outside. They could then switch up further around Yonkers to get the traditional left/right-side running, and not foul tracks.
7. The flyover needs to intersect the MNRR inside the MNRR tracks 2 and 3 for full access .
Someone else addressed which tracks they need. Yonkers isn't an issue; they can platform anywhere.
  by STrRedWolf
 
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/4 ... t/3054435/
Four new Metro-North Railroad stations are planned for the Bronx as work on the Metro-North Penn Station Access Project, which was put on hold because of the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic and MTA funding uncertainty, has resumed, Gov. Andrew Cuomo announced Thursday.

"As vaccination rates go up and COVID-19 abates, it's time to refocus our efforts on the critical infrastructure projects we need to deliver for New York's future and economic recovery from the pandemic," Cuomo said in a statement.

The project will bring four fully accessible Metro-North stations to the Bronx, giving them access to Penn Station. These stations will be located at:

Hunts Point
Parkchester
Morris Park
Co-Op City
  by Jeff Smith
 
It's good news; I've been seeing this from various sources, most recently LoHud. The RFP should be issued Wednesday, from which we should be able to glean tech details such as which equipment, etc. would be used.

Speaking of tech details... I'm guessing MNRR will use Moynihan primarily.
  by Train60
 
Governor Cuomo Announces Resumption of Metro-North Penn Station Access Project / Press Conference / May 13, 2021

  by Arlington
 
For 2025 launch of service...
  by Jeff Smith
 
Estimated Time Savings: https://patch.com/new-york/newrochelle/ ... team-ahead
...
The commute from Co-op City to Penn Station is currently 75 minutes. The commute time is expected to be reduced to 25 minutes when the new line is in operation.

The commute time from Hunts Point to Penn Station is currently 45 minutes. Commuters will be able to make the trip in 16 minutes once the new route is in place.
...
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