Map with Swampoodle

I was explaining the Swampoodle Connection to a friend today, so I modified the map to show him where it would have been and what the system would look like (all other things being equal). Thought I might as well post it here.

Uhmmmm..... Weird. I dont think having the Trenton trains come into the Reading side instead of its current routing is part of the Swampoodle connection. Also did you color the map where the 101 and 102 are green or is Septa doing that in the newest maps. Last I checked they were still listed as brown.

BuddSilverliner269 wrote:Uhmmmm..... Weird. I dont think having the Trenton trains come into the Reading side instead of its current routing is part of the Swampoodle connection. Also did you color the map where the 101 and 102 are green or is Septa doing that in the newest maps. Last I checked they were still listed as brown.

Nope, they're green on SEPTA's map now. You're right on the R7 though, I missed that piece when I erased that chunk of track. Fixed it.

radioboy wrote:

BuddSilverliner269 wrote:Uhmmmm..... Weird. I dont think having the Trenton trains come into the Reading side instead of its current routing is part of the Swampoodle connection. Also did you color the map where the 101 and 102 are green or is Septa doing that in the newest maps. Last I checked they were still listed as brown.

Nope, they're green on SEPTA's map now. You're right on the R7 though, I missed that piece when I erased that chunk of track. Fixed it.

No kidding??? Wow. Im guessing all of the trolley lines should be green . Next time I jump on the train Im gonna have to look at the map. Haha

radioboy wrote:I was explaining the Swampoodle Connection to a friend today, so I modified the map to show him where it would have been and what the system would look like (all other things being equal). Thought I might as well post it here.

Can someone please give me a clue as to where I should look to find this Swampoodle Connection on the map? Thanks.

rslitman wrote:

radioboy wrote:I was explaining the Swampoodle Connection to a friend today, so I modified the map to show him where it would have been and what the system would look like (all other things being equal). Thought I might as well post it here.

Can someone please give me a clue as to where I should look to find this Swampoodle Connection on the map? Thanks.

In between the N Philadelphia regional rail station and the N Philadelphia BSL station. The line which is turning southeast is the connection which was never built. It allows the "R3 Chestnut Hill West" to enter the system on the Reading Side (via Market East) rather than the Pensy side (via 30th St). Here it is on a real map.

*That's* all that Swampoodle is? A pair of stupid tracks swung over a few dozen feet?

From they way everyone hems and haws, I always thought it was a bit... more....involved....

Given it'd dump a messy junction on a busy RR, why on earth hasn't Septa done it?

Nasadowsk wrote:*That's* all that Swampoodle is? A pair of stupid tracks swung over a few dozen feet?

From they way everyone hems and haws, I always thought it was a bit... more....involved....

It is more involved, as you might already know. There's signaling, power (if you keep the existing PRR power supply to the CHW, you need another phase break), etc., and there's also the matter of fitting the additional trains through 16th Street during the morning peak, when that part of the railroad is already tied up with peak trains trying to get into Roberts Yard.

That said, it really does need to be a higher priority.

Especially if, as has been reported, they're faced with the need to rehab the CHW bridge over the Reading trunk -- that should change the economics.

One small correction. SEPTA/Amtrak are upgrading many of the interlockings along the Keystone Corridor. My understanding of the upgrades is that the interlockings at Overbrook and Bryn Mawr will be replaced with high-speed interlockings at Wynnefield and Villanova respectively. There has not been any serious ridership or market analysis of the R5 to see how you would run service but it seems that Malvern has replaced Paoli and Villanova will replace Bryn Mawr as terminal stations. Why? I am assuming that the gravity of travel demand has moved a bit west in the years since the Center City Commuter Tunnel has opened due to development. Here is my back of the napkin look out how I would envision three types of service:

1. NY Penn - Philly - Harrisburg Express Service (Amtrak service with some trains continuing on to Pittsburgh via an engine change in Harrisburg)
2. The "R5" Philly - Harrisburg Local/Limited Service (serves Suburban Station and the CCT with some turn-backs at Thorndale)
3. The "R4" Fox Chase - Villanova Local Service (serves Suburban Station and the CCT)

High level platforms would be key at all R4 stations (efficiency is a must on a line with many stops) as well as the key Amtrak stops as envisioned in the Keystone Corridor Environmental Assessment. Aggregate headways at principal or express stations would be 15 minutes weekday and 30 minutes night/weekend while at local stations there would 30 minute weekday and 60 minute night/weekend. I really need a ridership table to make a solid recommendation about stopping patterns of the R5 but in any case you would have to provide a cross-platform transfer between the R4 and R5 somewhere on the Main Line (e.g., Villanova or Ardmore).

With the new Swampoodle connection you have to take another look at travel markets and the hundreds of millions of dollars being invested in the Keystone corridor in the very near future. Also, you would really want to differentiate the R4 from the R5 service all day as opposed to the status quo of today's peak service which is not very different from the PRR days.

Matthew Mitchell wrote:That said, it really does need to be a higher priority.

I'm pretty sure that not only is it not a priority, it's dead.

If the Swampoodle Connection really did exist, wouldn't there be no need for the "R3 N. Phila" station since those trains would instead serve North Broad?

R3 Passenger wrote:If the Swampoodle Connection really did exist, wouldn't there be no need for the "R3 N. Phila" station since those trains would instead serve North Broad?

r7, too.

radioboy wrote:

Matthew Mitchell wrote:That said, it really does need to be a higher priority.

I'm pretty sure that not only is it not a priority, it's dead.

I wonder...why did this proposal die? It doesn't seem to be as complicated as other projects. I would just see a concern with grading and of course the other issues listed above. Is it because the CHW line isn't crammed with ridership like the other trains?

While there may be a decent initial cost, you'd save plenty of time and money over running along Amtrak, especially since you have to cross over so many tracks on the very busy Northeast Corridor.

Tritransit Area wrote:

radioboy wrote:

Matthew Mitchell wrote:That said, it really does need to be a higher priority.

I'm pretty sure that not only is it not a priority, it's dead.

I wonder...why did this proposal die? It doesn't seem to be as complicated as other projects. I would just see a concern with grading and of course the other issues listed above. Is it because the CHW line isn't crammed with ridership like the other trains?

While there may be a decent initial cost, you'd save plenty of time and money over running along Amtrak, especially since you have to cross over so many tracks on the very busy Northeast Corridor.

Swampoodle was pretty much killed because of the state of disrepair the Reading Trunk was in. The entire Railworks project pretty much scarffed up SEPTA's capital funds and there was little money to do anything else.