Manhattan Transfer Station

When the H&M/PRR joint service between Park Place, Newark and Journal Square operated, was a separate platform used at Manhattan Transfer? If not, did trains have to cross the "main line" at grade or did fly-overs exist?

Manhattan Transfer consisted entirely of two island platforms, one for each direction. I believe the H&M trains regularly used the outer track on each platform, but since all tracks were originally equipped with third rails, I suppose they could be crossed over if necessary. The H&M used a flyover west of the station to reach its Park Place terminal; on the east end it used the flyover arrangement that still exists.

If you can get hold of a copy of Triumph V there is a track and signal diagram of the whole thing, including Park Place, somewhere around pages 160-170.

Excuse my ignorance, what is Triumph V?

It's the fifth in a series of excellent (make that superb) volumes on PRR history, by David W. Messer and Charles S. Roberts, and published by Barnard, Roberts & Co., Inc., 2606 Willow Ave., P. O Box 7344, Baltimore, MD 21227, featuring photos, track and signal diagrams, etc., that I don't know how they even found. The books are about 9x12, about 400 or so pages on slick paper. The first 5 volumes I've seen are as follows (I think they're up to VIII now):

I --- Altoona to Pitcairn 1846-1996
II -- Philadelphia to Harrisburg 1828-1998
III - Philadelphia Terminal 1838-2000
IV --Harrisburg to Altoona 1846-2001
V ---Philadelphia to New York 1830-2002
There's one out now on Philadelphia to Baltimore, as well. Lots of historical text as well as good information in the photo captions.

Forgot to add that the ISBN for Triumph V is 0-934118-27-2.

Thanks for the information!!

A good friend of mine, since passed on, told me of his experiences at that station. It was the place where electric engines switched from third rail to catenary, and vice versa. He told me of the third rail powering the electric motors on the bogies at either end of the engine, the main drivers would operate only on the catenary. As the engine traveled from one source to the other, he remarked that the engine seemed to suddenly swell with power, and the takeoff was alot faster and they reached cruising speed faster. Had to be quite an experience.

Manhattan Transfer ceased operation in 1937. The engine change there was always 3rd rail to steam and vice versa; once the catenary was completed from New York to the west, trains were powered by overhead-wire AC from New York without the need to change engines. His description of the locomotives was weird, to say the least. The PRR never had locomotives of the type described. The electric locomotives used, Class DD1, were effectively two 4-4-0s back to back, the driving wheels being powered by drive rods from motors mounted within the carbodies. (One of them is preserved in the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania at Strasburg.) I have to believe your friend was talking about some other station.

ExCon is correct; the PRR never had any combination AC-DC electrics. The New Haven did, of course, but I don't think that any of theirs worked as described. In fact, I can't imagine how a setup like that would work.

While the DD-1s were originally the mainstay of the Penn Station electrification, many were sent on to the LIRR and replaced by 12 L5-class 1-B-B-1 (or 2-4-4-2 in steam terms) boxcab electrics that, like the DD-1s, used a jackshaft drive. Unlike the DD-1s, however, they had a rigid frame so in fact were a 2-8-2 with duplex drive.

The AC electrification out of Penn Station was completed some time in the early 1930s, as I remember, and was opened all the way to Washington in 1935. By that time the electric-steam changeover had ceased, but, as noted, Manhattan Transfer continued in operation until 1937 strictly as the H&M transfer point, since the H&M's facilities at the new Newark station weren't completed until then.

Sounds like NYNH&H dual modes.

- A

BaltOhio wrote:ExCon is correct; the PRR never had any combination AC-DC electrics. The New Haven did, of course, but I don't think that any of theirs worked as described. In fact, I can't imagine how a setup like that would work.

While the DD-1s were originally the mainstay of the Penn Station electrification, many were sent on to the LIRR and replaced by 12 L5-class 1-B-B-1 (or 2-4-4-2 in steam terms) boxcab electrics that, like the DD-1s, used a jackshaft drive. Unlike the DD-1s, however, they had a rigid frame so in fact were a 2-8-2 with duplex drive.

The AC electrification out of Penn Station was completed some time in the early 1930s, as I remember, and was opened all the way to Washington in 1935. By that time the electric-steam changeover had ceased, but, as noted, Manhattan Transfer continued in operation until 1937 strictly as the H&M transfer point, since the H&M's facilities at the new Newark station weren't completed until then.

Cosmopolitan (M2) EMU sets do this today every day all day long. I also recall several photos of the NH dual mode units. Connecicut banned 3rd rails, so their original power system was that triangular overhead cat layout, the units would lower pants once switched over to 3rd rail into NY.

Found one:
http://sbiii.com/boxelpix/nh020dn.jpg

- A

Would the 3rd-rail shoes on the NH dual-modes have been compatible with PRR's overrunning 3rd rail?

An older post suggests that electric locos were changed near Harold Tower until catenary
was strung in the East River Tunnels, because the New Haven 3rd rail shoes weren't adjustable.
The much later FL-9 Diesel locos did have adjustable shoes.

ExCon90 wrote:The engine change there was always 3rd rail to steam and vice versa

One possible exception: the PA&W didn't have catenary for a year or two after catenary reached NY Penn. So for all we know a train from NY to Bay Head in 1933-34 that changed engines at Manh Tfr might have left NY behind an AC electric.