Makeup of Atlantic Coast Line trains Sunnyside Yard?

I have "Fragen" Question? Please answer in the context of the 1950's.

Passenger trains like the Champions, Gulf Coast Special, Palmetto and Florida Special, consisted of Baggage cars, RPO, coaches Dining Car, cafe car sleeping cars, and the observation car. Assuming that most passenger trains generally have the RPO's and baggage cars on the front of the train and the observation car on the tail of the train I ask the following? Coming out of Penn Station the GG1 would be on what part of the train on trains destined to Atlantic Coast Line.

a) Coupled to the observation car, baggage cars on hind end
b) Made up like any other long distance train not backwards as implied by a).

Broad Street Station in Richmond appears to have been a stub terminal. It seems to me the easiest thing to have done at Richmond would have the train pull into the station platform with Richmond Fredericksburg & Potomac Power. Than have the ACL diesels back against the train. Cut away from the RF&P Power and head back out. The train would not be backwards coming out of Richmond, VA under this operating plan. I think the access to the ACL is actually North and West of Broad Street Station I am still researching this. If I hear that the trains out of Penn are answer a) that would go a long way to sorting things out for me on how Coast Line trains operated out of Richmond.

Thanks for your time and consideration.

I "railfanned" Penn Station and Sunnyside a lot in the 1950's and early 60's. I never saw a GG-1 coupled to anything but head-end cars on ACL-destined or originated trains in those days, except possibly switching moves in and around Sunnyside itself. I believe the answer is b.

If you are trying to figure out how ACL hooked on at Richmond, why not ask that on the appropriate forum (if there is one), rather than try to deduce it from what happened at NYP/Sunnyside?


Ocala Mike

I actually have been asking on the appropriate forums. It is not an easy matter sorting out what happened more than 50 years ago. By covering the whole route I have a better chance of finding someone whom might be able to answer these questions.

HSSRAIL, I think I found something for you:

The Richmond Facility was as others have stated, Broad Street Station. This facility was under the ownership of the Richmond Terminal company, which was originally jointly owned by RF&P and ACL. Until 1959, SAL trains used Main Street station, owned by C&O. This station was on the SAL elevated line through Richmond. In 1959, the original agreement forming the Richmond Terminal Co. was modified to permit SAL to use the station.
The terminal was designed to permit one way operation only. Trains entered the north end of the terminal and then looped around. All trains faced the same way, whether they were going north or south. This was permissible since the ACL's main line branched off north of the station. A southbound ACL train would proceed past the junction with the RF&P, enter Broad street station, make its stop, and then proceed around the loop-it would then be northbound and it would proceed to the ACL junction, where it would proceed on to the ACL. Northbound, this was reversed. When SAL trains began using the station, they required back up moves to either enter or leave the station, as the SAL main line was parallel to the station.

A better description of the station, its operations and some excellent photos, including aerials, are in Griffin's books on the RF&P-"Capital Cities route" and "RF&P Passenger service". Both books are probably available from the society.


Here is the link to the above:

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a ... _id=004Zxt


Ocala Mike

PRR trains coming "off the road" into Sunnyside Yard would cut off the LIRR/NH lead tracks just west of the Queens Blvd. overpass. Then they would pass through a car wash and use a reversing loop that passed under the LIRR/NH tracks to enter the yard. No need for backup moves. The train would just continued into the yard and be pointed in the right direction for the trip back to Florida.