Maine MEDOT proposed RDC service brunswick-rockland

true, honestly I thought maybe they'd wanna get some sort of push pull. but yeah more RDC's would make more sense and be cooler.

Arborwayfan wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 9:49 am I bet they are going to call the train (ie the service) the Coastliner, not call the RDC (ie the equipment) the Coastliner. As in, now departing on track 1, the 9:30 am Coastliner for Rockland, making stations stops at.... At least, that would make more sense. Most potential riders won't be concerned with the name of the equipment as such.

The thing is, though, it'll probably be just one car. Is a train a train if it's only one unit? In any case, if they announce it as a Coastliner, people are going to think that's what the car is called, even if most of them are too young to remember the Beeliners, Shoreliners, Railiners, Speedliners, and various other -liners by which various railroads branded their RDCs.

Emmett wrote: ↑Tue May 02, 2023 12:14 pm true, honestly I thought maybe they'd wanna get some sort of push pull. but yeah more RDC's would make more sense and be cooler.

Push Pulls make sense, after 3 cars. For less, RDC's have better fuel usage, and acceleration.
I'm amazed that those things are still used be revenue service, 50 years later.

That's a point, charlesriverbranch. But does it matter, as long as people ride the thing?

i think people will ride the service as it pretty much could eliminate the need to drive on the highway there

10 of AllEarthRail's RDCs were last used by DCTA's A-Train leased from DART's TRE. DCTA refurbished their interiors, just sticking a label over TRE's label on the side of the RDCs to identify them as A-Train RDCs.
The largest problem with these RDCs will be maintaining them as major parts become more difficult to find for repairs. Postive Train Control systems will be required on tracks with new regularly scheduled passenger service, intercity or commuter, which this service meets. Squeezing in PTC equipment on these trains will require some modifications to the RDCs, which I assume AllEarthRail has already performed making them available for service.
Some AllEarthRail and DCTA youtube videos exists where you can see the material conditions of these RDCs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPLjutu_RYQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJdGtNNL0Gg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtjvRyci3kc
There are a few more youtube videos with exterior views, but few more still active with interior views.
All the ex-TRE RDCs were -1 models, over 90 seats. I believe AllEarth has one -2 or -3 model that has a baggage compartment where a small cafe or vending machine food service could be installed. For wheelchair passengers, mini high blocks can be used as these trains did not have lifts, or have high platforms throughout. Cheaper to build mini-high blocks than entire platforms.
When DCTA was leasing them and operating them, they had a crew of two, the engineer/driver and the conductor. The conductor usually opened the doors where the two RDCs met . the other doors were only used at the mini-high platforms as that was where the wheelchair spaces were located. RDCs only have 4 axels each, DCTA had difficulties shunting 4 axels, so usually operated them in pairs so the train had a total of 8 axels. I think a class 4 or less track in Maine will have the same difficulties shunting a single RDC as well. I would expect Maine would operate 3 car trains on weekends and 2 car trains on weekdays. So there would be 5 days each week to maintain a RDC out of service.

question. why 3 on the weekends and 2 on weekdays. why not reverse those ideas. 3 on weekdays. 2 weekends.


-Emmett

My guesses, depending on who turns out to want to ride:

Service attracts mostly tourists on scenic rides or day trips: maybe same # cars every day, maybe a little more on weekends.
Service attracts a lot of riders connecting with the DE to/from rental cottages etc: more cars on weekends, esp midday Sat and Sun for people starting/ending weekly rentals.
Service attracts a lot of riders connecting with the DE to/from weekend visits (hotel, family cottage, friends' cottage): more cars on weekends, esp Friday eve and connecting with the last couple DEs on Sunday.

Who knows, maybe: Service attracts tourists looking for a cold/rainy day activity: more cars on cold and rainy days.

Based on them saying that it's better to try the service than study the ridership, they'll probably adjust the consists once they see who's riding and when.

Emmett wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2023 8:50 am question. why 3 on the weekends and 2 on weekdays. why not reverse those ideas. 3 on weekdays. 2 weekends.
-Emmett

I was thinking this would be a tourist train more than a commuting train. The RDCs are capable of maximum speeds of 75 mph, the Class 3 tracks are limited to 60 mph, and I read elsewhere they are planning max speeds of 55 mph. Not a very competitive commuting train, but perfect for tourism. Do not more Bostonians tour on weekends?
As I explained before, having one free most of the time, in this case 5 out of 7 days, facilitates regular maintenance. It does not even have to be the same RDC for all 5 day, or even less days. The important point is to limit the number of shifts you have to pay someone to run and maintain them. Having an extra RDC around on most days allows doing everything on day shift. No need to pay someone to maintain them on an additional shift. The idea that 60+ year old RDCs will not have maintenance issues, no matter how well they are maintained, seems foolish to me. Best to have a spare around on most days.
Besides, they are going to provide the service and see what happens. Shucks, they might wish to lease more of them, or heaven forbid none of them.

yeah. also is there a target (exact or estimate date of service starting)? i know they said "summer 2023" but I am wondering what date(ish) they are shooting for. I will be in maine (45 mins from rockland) from june-august.

-emmett

electricron wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2023 2:53 am Postive Train Control systems will be required on tracks with new regularly scheduled passenger service, intercity or commuter, which this service meets. Squeezing in PTC equipment on these trains will require some modifications to the RDCs, which I assume AllEarthRail has already performed making them available for service.

It was mentioned elsewhere in these forums that PTC is not needed due to traffic density on the line.

One nice feature of RDCs with stops or slow orders relatively close together was their acceleration and braking. I don't know if these can still do it, but with their original 6-110s B&M RDCs would reach at least 50 MPH in the 1.2 miles between Lynn and Swampscott. And yes, I've seen 75 MPH on the speedo, 82 MPH one time.

I'm definitely going to make the trip, maybe go up for a couple of days: ride, chase and stop by the WW&F.

I saw 79 on one of the MARC RDCs, on a nhrs fan trip.

jbvb wrote: ↑Mon May 08, 2023 8:32 pm One nice feature of RDCs with stops or slow orders relatively close together was their acceleration and braking. I don't know if these can still do it, but with their original 6-110s B&M RDCs would reach at least 50 MPH in the 1.2 miles between Lynn and Swampscott. And yes, I've seen 75 MPH on the speedo, 82 MPH one time.

I'm definitely going to make the trip, maybe go up for a couple of days: ride, chase and stop by the WW&F.

Nice! maybe I'll see you sometime in Maine. I am going to railfan weekly ( probably 3 times a week) and ride it hopefully.

Can't wait to see these old units in action!

JBlaisdell wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 9:03 pm

electricron wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2023 2:53 am Postive Train Control systems will be required on tracks with new regularly scheduled passenger service, intercity or commuter, which this service meets. Squeezing in PTC equipment on these trains will require some modifications to the RDCs, which I assume AllEarthRail has already performed making them available for service.

It was mentioned elsewhere in these forums that PTC is not needed due to traffic density on the line.

That was probably posted by me before the final set of regulations posted in 2021. The section of the regulations in question.
49 CFR § 236.1019 - Main line track exceptions.
(c) Limited operations exception. FRA will consider an exception in the case of a track segment used for limited operations (operating in accordance with § 236.0 of this part) under one of the following sets of conditions:
(1) The trackage is used for limited operations by at least one passenger railroad subject to at least one of the following conditions:
(i) All trains are limited to restricted speed;
(ii) Temporal separation of passenger and other trains is maintained as provided in paragraph (e) of this section; or
(iii) Passenger service is operated under a risk mitigation plan submitted by all railroads involved in the joint operation and approved by FRA. The risk mitigation plan must be supported by a risk assessment establishing that the proposed mitigations will achieve a level of safety not less than the level of safety that would obtain if the operations were conducted under paragraph (c)(1) or (c)(2) of this section.
(2) Passenger service is operated on a segment of track of a freight railroad that is not a Class I railroad on which less than 15 million gross tons of freight traffic is transported annually and on which one of the following conditions applies:
(i) If the segment is unsignaled and no more than four regularly scheduled passenger trains are operated during a calendar day, or
(ii) If the segment is signaled (e.g., equipped with a traffic control system, automatic block signal system, or cab signal system) and no more than 12 regularly scheduled passenger trains are operated during a calendar day.
(3) Not more than four passenger trains per day are operated on a segment of track of a Class I freight railroad on which less than 15 million gross tons of freight traffic is transported annually.
(d) A limited operations exception under paragraph (c) is subject to FRA review and approval. FRA may require a collision hazard analysis to identify hazards and may require that specific mitigations be undertaken. Operations under any such exception shall be conducted subject to the terms and conditions of the approval. Any main line track exclusion is subject to periodic review

So this may qualify after all. But the RDCs would have to run at restricted speeds, and that is usually considered 20 mph. I do not think many would ride the trains if it took 2.5 hours to go 50 miles, and another 2.5 hours to return. 5 hours on a train does not leave many hours left to do anything in Rockland.