Maine Commuter Rail

Does the population density and traffic patterns of the Portland-Auburn/Lewiston corridor warrant even half of the round trips proposed? It just sounds like too much service for too little potential riders. If (and i emphasize the "IF" to no end) there are that many residents in the area without a car then i can see this project being a success, especially when you consider 1) the direct access to the waterfront/downtown 2) service running til 2:30am (much later than even Boston) and 3) the access to the airport.

I agree with you. In my opinion, they are going to blow this way out of proportion and in doing it, doom it. Portland could use a relatively simple streetcar system spidering various keys parts of town and perhaps just touching into adjacent towns- period.

NH2060 wrote:Does the population density and traffic patterns of the Portland-Auburn/Lewiston corridor warrant even half of the round trips proposed?

No.

Well, maybe half. Maybe.

It probably warrants (and could benefit from) some kind of basic bus service. Right now the only bus service between Portland and Lewiston is Greyhound, and they only run two round-trips a day. This could be an opportunity for Concord Coach to expand into Lewiston or Auburn, or perhaps a smaller outfit (two Portland-based companies come to mind: VIP Tour & Charter Bus Co. and Custom Coach & Limo Co.) could operate a commuter bus service. I believe VIP already operates the University of Southern Maine shuttle service between Portland and Gorham, so they would seem to have experience in shuttle/commuter operations.

Or maybe Portland's METRO bus service could operate it, similar to the ZOOM Turnpike Express bus service between Portland/South Portland/Biddeford which is operated by the Biddeford/Saco/OOB ShuttleBus service.

There are certainly plenty of options!

3rdrail wrote:I agree with you. In my opinion, they are going to blow this way out of proportion and in doing it, doom it. Portland could use a relatively simple streetcar system spidering various keys parts of town and perhaps just touching into adjacent towns- period.

Agreed. A simple streetcar system would be great to move people around the most dense parts of Portland, and get them out to the airport, the train station, and perhaps the mall in neighboring South Portland. The train station/airport/mall route would be relatively easy: just follow Congress Street.

A seasonal "historic" streetcar line down Commercial Street (see Tampa, Memphis, Little Rock, and Dallas for a few of the many current examples) would be lots of fun for both railfans and general tourists. But elsewhere, my limited experience with Portland Metro is that there is nowhere near enough ridership to justify the huge cost of a "real" light rail system. Outside of tourist routes like the Memphis Streetcar, light rail lines get built when demand is greater than what buses can accomodate. Portland hasn't even needed the bus-and-a-half articulated coaches that are an interim step in many cities including Boston.

True. Unfortunately, I think there is some kind of psychological barrier that causes some groups of people to feel reluctant to use bus services, and that barrier isn't as great with rail. I've lived in the Portland area for almost 8 years and I've never used the METRO Bus or the South Portland Bus Service. I'm not anti-bus — I actually like buses! — but I've just never bothered with it. If there was a streetcar that could take me from the mall area of South Portland to the train station, airport, downtown and Old Port areas, I'd be using it constantly. In fact, I'd be much more likely to actually try using the buses (I'd take a bus to get from my neighborhood to the mall, where I'd transfer to the streetcar).

"I think there is some kind of psychological barrier that causes some groups of people to feel reluctant to use bus services..."

In smaller metropolitan areas, I totally agree that buses have a stigma. So long as the service being provided is what the public can use, innovative marketing goes a long way to get people to try it. Smart phone apps that show live bus locations, station ETAs, etc. are phenomenally valuable where bus frequency is lacking.

MEC407 wrote:... I think there is some kind of psychological barrier that causes some groups of people to feel reluctant to use bus services...

Buses are usually very slow, and the seating is packed. So advertise the service as being fast express service and having luggage racks and/or comfortable seats and/or bike racks.

Agreed, Cowford and BandA. Good comments and observations.

Ultimately these people also missed the real and true growth "corridor" north of Portland anyways and right now that's Portland - Brunswick. Lots of growth on I-295. Although this project would probably have a stop in Yarmouth it simply doesn't ultimately address the real needs. Does the Downeaster, "not yet". Will it ever? Depends on future construction, schedule changes/additions/subtractions/improvements.

The "real" opportunity for new service in my mind is, you guessed it, the Augusta Lower Road. Even then there are plenty of reasons to argue that this isn't justified at present. I'm fine with that too as long as that means some thought is given to further improvements BON-POR. Once the MBTA improvements are completed I would be hard pressed to see any additional areas of single track that haven't had major work done to them. So perhaps it would be time to start looking at a few miles of mainline double track restoration here and there. Hopefully PAR is already doing such on behalf of their recent business additions (then again.....maybe not.....).

This year, the DE will run about 80% empty on average into/out of Portland going west. Without exaggeration, to/from the east, it'll be 94% empty. How could additional service/investment possibly be justified in the forseeable future?

So you're saying it leaves Portland for Boston and comes into Portland from Boston with only 47 seats full on average? And leaves and comes into Portland from/to the east with 15 seats full?

That sounds about right to me. Sure, the train might depart Portland with only 47 people on board, but (for example [these numbers are just guesstimates]) they'd pick up another 20 in Saco, another 20 in Wells, another 30 in Dover, another 20 in Durham, another 40 in Exeter, another 20 in Haverhill... you could easily have 200 people on board by the time the train reaches Boston. Then when those people head back home, and all the folks from the intermediate stops disembark, you'd have 47 people arriving back in Portland. I don't think there's anything too shocking about that.

My further thoughts on the MRTC study, in no particular order:

• From a commuter perspective, the L-A end of the service is simply a combination of an excuse and an adequate crew base and turning point. I still maintain through personal anecdotal experience that the majority of those commuting from the Androscoggin area to Portland are blue-collar workers who live in L-A to escape the cost of housing in the Portland area, and further that, with the possible exception of MMC, those workers largely work off-peninsula where parking is typically plentiful and free. Those workers represent a poor target market for commuter rail to the India St. location which it itself inconvenient to Metro bus service.
• Corollary to that, the true heart of the "commuter rail" aspect of the proposal is the stops in Yarmouth and Falmouth; those locations could supply the train with passengers headed for Portland's Financial District which is its most likely target destination. Unfortunately, the emphasis in the report on new, transit-oriented development and general car-hatred means that station locations which would provide parking for those workers to conveniently access the train without changing homes were dismissed out-of-hand.
• I do like the late-night running; while I am skeptical of the commuter attraction to Lewiston-Auburn, I think the proposal would provide a decent transportation option to late-night Old Port revelers, as the last run on weekends would be after Last Call.
• The report itself includes no potential ridership studies or surveys, relying on extrapolations from other communities' experiences. It doesn't even present any real needs it would fill or harms it would solve, other than, again, a general hatred of cars, and without looking up MDOT's traffic counts I am going to go out on a limb and guess that even the ridership guesses in the report would not truly dent what traffic Portland has.

"So you're saying it leaves Portland for Boston and comes into Portland from Boston with only 47 seats full on average? And leaves and comes into Portland from/to the east with 15 seats full?"

Well, I calculate it at 58 west of Portland, but YES! That's why I'm such a critic of the DE, esp. the BRU extension.

Here's the math for POR-BRU: Assuming half the trains are three coaches and a cafe and the other half are four coaches and a cafe... 270 seats * 6 trips daily * 364 days (allowing for a couple days of reduced service) = 589,680 available seats/yr. Forecasted ridership = 36,000 one-way trips. Percentage of seats utilized = 36,000 / 589,680, or 6%.

Keep in mind, THIS IS WHAT NNEPRA/TRNE EXPECTED AND ARE PROCLAIMING A SUCCESS! And TRNE is advocating additional service east.

Please rank the following on an insanity scale of 1-10:

"Our Brunswick trains are running 94% empty. Obviously, we need more service to meet demand!"