M3 Retirement, Scrapping

"MACTRAXX wrote: Dog (and Everyone): Heard mention at the December 2021 LIST meeting that the 80 M3 cars with PTC installed
are being stored with a return-to-service planned for the opening of ESA and completing the Main Line Third
Track Project one year from now with an anticipated ridership increase in 2023 depending on how the recovery
from the C-19 problem evolves over the course of 2022 affecting the percentage of riders returning to the LIRR."

Do you think those 80 M-3's would be assigned to the Jamaica - Brooklyn shuttle when ESA opens ?
That's what I'm thinking.

Sure, why not screw over the Brooklyn riders completely? Like it's not bad enough they're already going to have to go up and over to the new platform instead of the traditional convenient cross-platform transfer. At least they'll be able to see out the front though.

BM: 80 cars would be a bit much for a 9.3 mile route (Atlantic Terminal-Jamaica) - but a captive fleet of cars
to be used on the route is a possibility serving Platform F at Jamaica with the opening of ESA and the Main
Line Third Track completion in (optimistically) one year's time.
From a LIRR ETT - miles:
Atlantic Terminal 0.0; Brook-1 0.1; Brook-2 0.6
Nostrand Avenue 1.6
East New York 4.0
Boland's Landing (Morris Park) 8.6
Dunton Tower 8.7
Jay Tower 9.0
Jamaica 9.3
Another question: Will the LIRR continue to operate the line or will it be conveyed to NYC Transit as a Subway
route being (unfortunately) isolated from the rest of the LIRR system? MACTRAXX

MACTRAXX wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:54 pm Another question: Will the LIRR continue to operate the line or will it be conveyed to NYC Transit as a Subway
route being (unfortunately) isolated from the rest of the LIRR system? MACTRAXX

That proposal has been discussed by the MTA for years. Was it mentioned in any recent (last five years) NY State infrastructure proposals, or more specifically by Governor Kathy Hochul? If not, then it's likely shelved at the moment for more critical projects such as ESA and the Gateway Tunnels.

Speaking of M3s, where will these M3s be refurbished? Hillside, Arch Street or somewhere else? I believe there are still a few M3 sets at Ronkonkoma, and I think those sets are being transferred to Hillside in recent days.

newkirk wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:23 pm "MACTRAXX wrote: Dog (and Everyone): Heard mention at the December 2021 LIST meeting that the 80 M3 cars with PTC installed
are being stored with a return-to-service planned for the opening of ESA and completing the Main Line Third
Track Project one year from now with an anticipated ridership increase in 2023 depending on how the recovery
from the C-19 problem evolves over the course of 2022 affecting the percentage of riders returning to the LIRR."

Do you think those 80 M-3's would be assigned to the Jamaica - Brooklyn shuttle when ESA opens ?
That's what I'm thinking.

First I've heard of M3's being modified to have PTC. Do we have any info on what work was done above and beyond that, if any? And how expensive would it have been to add PTC?

Have you seen the large silver cabinet installed on the cab cars (west car, unless it's a diesel train with an engine on each end) on the diesel fleet, behind the engineers compartment?

That's where the PTC components are stored.


The modified M3's have a similar cabinet. This is located in the "B Car" (Odd numbered car with the bathroom). It's directly across from the bathroom. That's where the PTC components are stored.

Beyond the expense per car, how difficult was it to retrofit the M3's? I keep in mind that they had to have something already for what, ACES? And would they have been able to share a fair percentage of the components with the C3's and DE's / DM's? I do understand that you have to connect to existing equipment when you retrofit.

Were the M7's built either with PTC or 'PTC ready'?

M3's & M7's already had LIRR's long established Automatic Speed Control System..Not sure if PTC interconnects with it or it's a completely separate system.

The 80 M3 cars already have PTC equipment mods. As mentioned above, its the silver box in place of the rear most seats in the bathroom cars.
M7s had no PTC provisions when new. PTC regulation wasn't written till 2008, after the last M7s were on the property already

I heard there was a move of 12 M3s from Ronkonkoma to Hillside last weekend, I do not have pictures

From what I was told, by someone who would be one of the people who would know, there will be increased service coming in June 2022. I don't know if it's the full return to pre-pandemic level service. The M3's will return to revenue service. This would fall in line with the summer general pick for crews, when new schedules come out each year, around Memorial Day.


Train crews have periodic tests to maintain their qualifications. M3's are still being reviewed, during the air brake portion of the re-certification process.

gamer4616 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:19 pm From what I was told, by someone who would be one of the people who would know, there will be increased service coming in June 2022. I don't know if it's the full return to pre-pandemic level service. The M3's will return to revenue service. This would fall in line with the summer general pick for crews, when new schedules come out each year, around Memorial Day.


Train crews have periodic tests to maintain their qualifications. M3's are still being reviewed, during the air brake portion of the re-certification process.

I've heard this too, along with keeping 20 cars more, total 100.
don't know if those additional 20 will be PTC modified. They need not be, they'd just have to run in the belly of the train/

Just an update, since January the following have made their final voyage, or are being prepped to make their final voyage to Ohio.

February - 9887-8, 9905-6, 9917-8
March/April - 9773-4, 9847-8, 9813-4

Likely Next 9825-6, 9845-6, 9867-8 (already in Hillside)

Everything in KO is expected to stay on the property, mostly everything in Long Beach will be scrapped.

R32 - With 18 M3 cars on your list being retired and sent out for scrap - How many M3 cars are being stored at
Long Beach? I assume that these are not PTC equipped and are no longer needed with ridership being less
than when "The Problem" began just over two years ago - along with the new M9 cars to compensate - the
retirement of a portion of the remaining M3 fleet.

Do you have a number of the M3 cars stored at Ronkonkoma?
Is that the 80 cars equipped with PTC that are being retained?
Thanks in advance...MACTRAXX

18 in Long Beach
4 of them are staying, 14 going,

80 cars (40 pair) have PTC and will stay
20 cars (10 pair) do NOT have PTC but are staying, they'll have to run in the middle of the trains.

KO has about 60, and Babylon 12. I think the rest are in Hillside

I take it none of these things are going to be retained for museum status?