M-5 Technical Specifications

Good afternoon,
SEPTA recently released the technical specs for the M-5 fleet of cars.

https://www5.septa.org/wp-content/uploa ... V0AqVlN7tM

The highlights include no open gangways, potential longitudinal seating, and plenty of information displays.

The astute among you reading the specs will realize that SEPTA is essentially describing a PA-5 car built for PATH. These cars would be excellent M-4 replacements, and I would be very happy to see new Kawasaki products in Philadelphia once again.

Is there a reason that the M5 can't have open gangways? They always run 6 car sets or can they go for a married pair solution?

Side question is the M-4 low on spares because the MFL is always delayed now.

If that is what they are describing then pretty much the M5 is gonna be a PA5 car or somewhat different but how many cars are they trying to buy?

MCG and Everyone - Interesting ***994*** page technical RFP for a new MFSE M5 fleet...
I downloaded and am reading through the proposal - somehow my device was able to take this entire file
(8.95 MB) without any problems in the transmission...This is by far the largest single document that I have...

At the time of this post I have gone through about 500 pages - if there is any drawings or artist's renderings
of what these new MFSE cars may look like somewhere between page 500 and 994 that would help...

I am thinking of an M5 fleet around the same size number wise as the M4 fleet is - 220 cars.
If these cars are constructed similar to the PATH PA5 - they will have full width cabs.
Say "goodbye" to the head-end view RFW that the M4 cars have...MACTRAXX

MCG and Everyone - Finished up looking through the **994** page RFP for M5 cars...

The last 20 pages (974-994) are arguably the most interesting with specifications for tunnel and line clearances
designs of important parts such as third rail shoes and recent fact sheets of the M4 fleet with one photo of car
#1233 included...Will the M5 cars end up resembling the M4 cars in their appearance?

If Kawasaki submits - and then WINS the bid for the new M5 fleet will be a question in time...
The lead time is probably going to be up to five years before the pilot cars arrive: 2026-2027
My guess that a 220 car fleet - with an each-car price of around $2 million dollars optimistically will be a
contract for around $450 million dollars with the added support necessary for the new M5 fleet.

The M5 fleet renewal is going to be one of SEPTA's most expensive - and ultimately most important -
projects of the 2020s decade...MACTRAXX

PHLSpecial wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 12:43 pm Side question is the M-4 low on spares because the MFL is always delayed now.

I can't speak for SEPTA but I did commute to Temple from Upper Darby everyday and can give my first hand observations.

101-102 trolleys: Only ever saw one mechanical issue take a trolley out of service (was in another car ahead of us so I don't know what was wrong)

BSL: One day someone punched out a window. Train kept running in service with a packed crowd (because who doesn't love a good breeze from the subway).

EL (M-4):
-Half of one door wouldn't open (frequently)
-Display panels had dead pixels or wouldn't turn on
-One time the lights in one car were just off for the whole trip
-Train taken out of service because a control system issue kept applying the brakes randomly
-Train taken out of service because of control system issue that interfered with the doors opening
-Train taken out of service because of unexplained control system issue (though I remember seeing sparks from the front truck when it pulled into 15th street)
- Other Trains taken out of service through the years that I don't have details on
- That one time about a couple years ago that they found cracks in the body and had to pull almost all the trains for repair ( I remember reading a story about it, it was after the S-V issue).

This is all just from my personal observation but I have come to feel like the M-4's were always the worst vehicles that SEPTA currently owns. I was not shocked to hear that they were looking to replace them before the BSL fleet. If anything it wouldn't shock me to hear that they aren't putting full effort into maintaining them anymore. Just keeping them running until they can launch them from a cannon into the Schuylkill.

I found this technical specs PDF on SEPTA's site for M5's
https://www5.septa.org/wp-content/uploa ... on-EOI.pdf

Some interesting items:

Part 16.8 indicates the new cars will have Part 229 FRA safety glass, Type I on the F-end, Type II elsewhere.

Part 2.11 notes the M5s would be compatible with to M4s to be used as motive power for trash train.

ZS - This SEPTA file concerning the M5 car RFP has been available since at least May 2022...
There is a previous discussion: "M5 Technical Specifications" that began on May 10 (6 posts) to June 13, 2022.
m-5-technical-specifications-t174242.html
Take note to my two post reply on the M5 car topic - this PDF is **994** pages long...
Any M4 replacement cars will be five to seven years (estimate)away - there is no timeline yet for a carbuilder
award for a contract let alone when any M5 replacement cars will begin to be built...

As a comparison between the MFL and BSL car fleets:
In case anyone is unaware the Broad Street Line Kawasaki B4 car fleet is reaching their 40th year of service (!!!)
(Built 1982-1983) and have held up well enough that there is no replacement B5 fleet mention in SEPTA's plans.

A good 2023 New Year to all with my first reply post of the year...MACTRAXX