LV waterfront terminals in New York City

Did the LV ever have a waterfront terminal? When did LV start the engine change at Newark? Did all trains get the engine change or just selected ones?

LV had Pier 38, Manhattan. There is a drawing of the office building and entrance on the cover of the Lehigh Valley Railroad Employees 20th Annual Reunion program booklet.

Their terminal in Jersey was right next to the CNJ's in Jersey City.

Many good books on the subject. All LV trains were re-routed to the PRR, and the PRR didn't allow locomotives to operate into Newark, or New York. The PRR swapped power, with the Valley, at NK tower, where PRR electrics took over the task. The Valley had numerous terminals, in the Newark, Jersey City area, and my map, from the early 1900's shows over a dozen terminals, in the NYC area, with carfloat operations reaching into the East river, and covering areas all over the city.Piers, transfer stations and team tracks abounded, early in the LV . I will list them all, as soon as I can count them all. Regards

Form the book "Railroads of Hoboken & Jersey City" which is part of
the Images of Rail series by Arcadia Publishing.
The pic is from 1974 showing the CNJ Terminal with its rails torn up.
The freight cars to the left and right of the site are LV trains. The LV
used what was left of the CNJ yard.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... ?id=363413

Actually, the Valley had Black Tom, Claremont, Johnson Ave, etc., in the vicinity of the CNJ terminal, which had been closed, following the Aldene plan, and subsequent rerouting of CNJ trains over the Valley, to Penn station, via NK/Hunter tower routing. The Valley had the terminal, directly north of the CNJ Jersey City/Communipaw Terminal, since the early 1900's. The Valley had a unique arrangement there, with angled slips allowing twice as many ships to be berthed, in the same amount of real estate, as straight bulkheaded berths. This terminal was the original terminus of the Morris Canal, which the Valley purchased, for ROW across NJ, and into tidewater, north of Perth Amboy, which was it's original NJ terminus. (at tidewater) Will list those piers and terminals in NYC shortly, still working on another project. Regards

Here is a list, of docks, terminals and stations, in the NYC area, from my 1908, LV map of the New York City area:

* Black Tom National Dock Storage
*Communipaw Ave. Yard
*Jersey City Terminal A.K.A. Claremont Terminal
*Grand St. Storage & Transfer Yard
There are 2 other facilities, but cannot read the names, due to age/condition of linen map. The NYC side of the river includes these terminals:

*69th St. Bay Ridge Transfer
*Bush Docks and Independent Storage Yard
*Erie Basin Terminal
*Atlantic Yard and Terminal
*Red Hook Terminal
*Baltic Terminal
*Fulton Terminal
*Jay Street Terminal
*Washington Avenue Bridge Terminal
*Brooklyn East Docks Terminal
*Greenpointe Avenue
*Pot Cove Terminal, Astoria
*Harlem River Station Terminal
*124th Street Terminal
*43rd Street Terminal
*Piers 2&3, Manhattan
*Pier 44, east of Christopher Street
*Pier 66
*West 27th Street Terminal & Yards
There are at least two more LVRR yards/terminals, that cannot be read, again, due to condition of this linen map. This was just the list, from 1908. The Valley cultivated other interchanges/terminals/piers through the years, and a review of a map, from perhaps every five years, would show the differences, unless someone has an "all time" listing of piers, terminals and yards, throughout the history of the LVRR, in the metro NYC area. It is important to remember, the Valley had a saltwater terminal, in it's original run across NJ. This terminus was in Perth Amboy, NJ, directly on Raritan Bay. With it's piers, and facilities located there, and a giant coal storage facility in South Plainfield, this was the original mainline of the Valley, for many years, until it's acquisition of the Morris Canal, and it's stake in the National Docks Railroad. It's hard to admit, but the DL&W Gladstone branch was also the originally planned route, across NJ. It's hard to imagine the Valley running along the current M&E DL&W route, across the state, from Gladstone to Hoboken.............Regards,

A list of LVRR freight agents dated February 1, 1957 gives the following for New York City:
Pier 8 N.R.
Pier 38 N.R.
West 27th St.
Pier 44
E. 34th St.
E. 149th St. (Bronx Term)

Was not the Black Tom terminal the site of the infamous 1916 explosion/sabotage incident that helped push the US into WW1?

Yes, it was.

I just read the Wikipedia article on the Black Tom incident and aparently the LVRR got 50 Million as compenstation from the Germans in the late 50s. How much of this actually was payed before they went into Conrail and how did the revievers for the bankruptcy make out with the money?

M&Eman wrote:Did all trains get the engine change or just selected ones?

An article in the fan press about LV commuter doodlebugs mentioned that they used a LV terminal next to the North side of CNJ's Jersey City Terminal, and the passengers used the CNJ ferries. I don't know if there were through fares. Later, some of the doodlebugs got PRR style cab signals and ran to Exchange Place, instead. This implies that they weren't towed and didn't run under the Hudson River.
Of course, in early days, LV trains to New York City would change engines at Manhattan Transfer.

LV "commuter" traffic terminated at either Exchange Place, on local 7 (aka Johnston Ave), or Communipaw Terminal, depending on the time in history you choose to focus on.
All "long distance" traffic went into New York via either the Hunter Connection, Exchange Place, Communipaw Terminal, or Manhattan Transfer, again depending on the time in history.

The local trains #52 and #53 ran until June 19th, 1948 on the Jersey City, South Plainfield run. The Irvington Branch also had commuter trains for 5 months in 1915.

CF

The LV had land-locked waterfront terminal in the Bronx, in the shadow of the NYC's Harlem River Drawbridge. From what I understand, floats were brought all the way over from Jersey City. LV maintained a large warehouse inthe Bronx at the terminal, which I think survives today as a U-Haul warehouse. It's visible from the Metro-North trains as you cross the Harlem River. Either way, it sounds like operations wound down in the Bronx by the early 1970s.

http://www2pb.ip-soft.net/railinfo/car- ... t-ops.html

-otto-

Not to toot my own horn, or in this case, blow my own tug whistle (but I guess I'm going to have to), but in the January/June 2005 issue of the Rail-Marine Information Group's journal, Transfer, issue #42, I
co-authored and researched, along with noted LV marine historian and
ex-marine dept. employee David Pearce, the only known published, definitive history of the 149th St Terminal.
Back issue are available here - http://www.trainweb.org/rmig/journal.html
David has previously written the capsule history of the LV's W.27th St in Transfer, and also the capsule histories of the Harlem Transfer, CNJ Bronx Terminal, and Erie Bronx Terminal operations in Railpace in the 1980's.
I have been actively researching the P.O.N.Y.'s rail-marine infrastructure for about 10 years now, in particular the LVRR (I am recreating the LV's Jersey City terminal in HO), and enjoy learning and sharing what I have uncovered through friends like David and historian/author Tom Flagg.
It is a facinating subject that is worthy of continued discussion, especially when so little is actually known about it, due to the fact that most people would have rather chased trains than tugboats and carfloats. (not to mention it was easier!)

Ralph Heiss
S. Plainfield, NJ
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/railmarineops/