LIRR Mainline Third Track Project

Head-end View wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:35 pm I thought the maximum speed limit for Diesel trains on LIRR was 65mph. Was it upgraded to 80mph at some point?

Maximum speed is 65 MPH in diesel territory and 80 MPH in electrified territory for the DE/DM engines with cars.

I’ve watched those DE/DM hauled trains do 80 through NHP and Mineola. They can definitely do 80 on the Main Line where the 3rd track will be.

Remember, they are also thinking of electrifying the Central Branch. It's in the cards, but it has not yet been given the green light. In fact if they do, they would be laying down new track and rail ties to go with the third rail. That would mean that crucial segment would be out of service. If they do electrify it, you would have trains departing Babylon in which their next stop wouldn't be Lindenhurst, it would be Bethpage or Hicksville.

Either way, the MAS has always been 65 MPH for Diesels and 80 MPH for Electrics. The Herricks Road accident stated that the van was hit by a dead-head diesel to Port Jefferson that was going 65 MPH.

In another development, one of Edward's photos has shown that Track 3 will be for New York and Points West. Seems the current Track 1 will become Track 3.

Everyone: There is a Main Line signal project scheduled for Saturday-Sunday February 27-28
(rescheduled from February 20-21 due to weather conditions) closing the Main Line between
Floral Park and Hicksville. The alternate service plan is basically the same as past outages:
http://web.mta.info/supplemental/lirr/s ... -27-28.htm

Effective March 1 the Main Line between west of Hicksville and east of Floral Park will have renumbered tracks:
Track 3 will now serve Platform A at all stations between New Hyde Park and Westbury
Track 1 will serve Platform B; Track 2 will become what will be the "center" or express track
http://web.mta.info/supplemental/lirr/l ... bering.htm
This change was postponed for one week (originally to be effective Monday Fabruary 22)
with the re-scheduling of the coinciding signal project.

This should put to rest any confusion as to what the Main Line track numbers will be...MACTRAXX

Head-end View wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:53 pm Why is LIRR building an underpass? They usually build pedestrian Overpasses. Isn't an underpass likely to promote crime, homeless people sheltering in it, etc?

H-E View: The LIRR usually would construct an pedestrian overpass - but in the case of New Hyde Park
it may have been the influence of New Hyde Park Village in preference for a pedestrian underpass under the
tracks at that location remembering that they were against any elevated structures of any type over the tracks.

One of the facets of the NHP NIMBY opposition to station improvements was to not have an elevated structure
built to replace the NHP Station - Floral Park was their prime local example - and to retain the station as it is.
That was accomplished with the Third Track Project design eliminating the three NHP grade crossings...

MACTRAXX

It would be nearly impossible to elevate New Hyde Park the Babylon Branch way. The reason why the South Shore was elevated up to a two dozen feet high from top (canopy) to bottom (roadway) was because of the water table. If they eliminated the grade crossings at Wantagh and Bellmore in the same way as the Main Line, you would have dug a few feet and hit water because of the close proximity to water (Sunrise Highway running parallel did not allow room either). Along the Main Line you can did over 40 feet without hitting water.

If they did elevate the station like Massapequa Park from 1977-1980 (Known as the Great Wall of China) imagine this: In a constricted space they lay shoo-fly tracks, construct two temporary platforms, demolish and rip the old facilities out, and then erect a gargantuan concrete viaduct from just East of Floral Park to NASSAU 1. Merillon Avenue is only 1.3-miles East of NHP so the geology would also be a challenge. I love what they did to NHP, it was more efficient, less time consuming, smaller construction areas, and on budget.

I can see they went the Penn Station way of numbering the tracks with the higher the number the more Northern (Track 21 is the Northernmost). It will be PA, T3, T2 (express middle), T1, PB. Usually the lower the number the more Northern. At Hicksville and Babylon it goes T1, PA, T2, PB, T3. All of those symbols go North to South.

MACTRAXX wrote: ↑Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:26 am

Head-end View wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:53 pm Why is LIRR building an underpass? They usually build pedestrian Overpasses. Isn't an underpass likely to promote crime, homeless people sheltering in it, etc?

H-E View: The LIRR usually would construct an pedestrian overpass - but in the case of New Hyde Park
it may have been the influence of New Hyde Park Village in preference for a pedestrian underpass under the
tracks at that location remembering that they were against any elevated structures of any type over the tracks.



One of the facets of the NHP NIMBY opposition to station improvements was to not have an elevated structure
built to replace the NHP Station - Floral Park was their prime local example - and to retain the station as it is.
That was accomplished with the Third Track Project design eliminating the three NHP grade crossings...

MACTRAXX

Well we certainly wouldn't want any unsightly pedestrian bridges to deface the skyline of beautiful downtown New Hyde Park, now would we?......... The Village of NHP will be sorry when the first mugging happens down there and they have homeless people sleeping there too.

Also MACTRAXX, I believe your rationale for the track numbering is incorrect. It's not related to north/south. It is related to direction. Where there are two tracks the w/b is Track-1 and the e/b is Track-2 keeping in mind that everything on LIRR is odd numbered westbound and even numbered eastbound.

So then if you add a north (westbound) track it becomes Track-3 and if adding an additional south (eastbound) track it becomes Track-4. So where there are four tracks (Woodside to Queens Village) the two w/b tracks are 1 & 3, and the two e/b tracks are 2 & 4.

They could have numbered the new three track section as either 3-1-2, or 1-2-4.

H-E View - I have two separate replies in this post:

1-The12th Street ped underpass at the west end of NHP Station is to be built ADA compliant meaning that
there will be most likely rampways on both sides constructed instead of two more costly elevators that are
parts of new overhead pedestrian crossing structures - Carle Place the best example - and the to-be-built
pedestrian crossing replacing the Main Street crossing in Mineola. What NHP Village objected to was the
large overhead crossing structure construction type along with two elevator buildings on both tracksides.

The new underpass can be equipped with cameras and corner mirrors for security reasons along with
vigilance from authorities. Being that this is NHP Village if there are any problems with this underpass
(or any other problems at the new NHP Station) complaints should be followed up on promptly.

2-I only posted the LIRR notice concerning the Main Line track renumbering effective March 1, 2021.
My only comment was that this should end any confusion about what the tracks will be re-numbered
from reading other posts in this topic. I made no other comments about track number changes in this
topic and for that matter the LIRR Forum.

MACTRAXX

MACTRAXX, my apologies............I should have directed my post re: track numbering to MattAmity90.

MattAmity90, you are confusing two different numbering schemes. Main tracks are numbered differently than station tracks at major stations like Jamaica and Hicksville. Those station tracks are numbered north-to-south as you pointed out. Main tracks are numbered the way I explained in my earlier post that I wrongly directed to Mactraxx.

Sorry for the confusion, guys.

Yesterday, it became official that the Main Street grade crossing in Mineola is officially decommissioned. Several railfans and construction workers lined up at the jersey barriers with fence erected below a sign that says Dead End. It is official now that vehicular traffic will no longer interact with the tracks, it is officially grade-separated.

The work at Willis Avenue is working smoothly on the North end where Second and Willis will meet. A slope that is extremely steep has been dug up with retaining walls on both sides of the road built, this is North of the Oyster Bay Branch crossing. I still have no idea what is going on in between the two crossings in terms of doing subterranean work, and the slope to the South of Willis is taking shape. One thing I did find out is within the triad they are laying the foundation work for the new Mineola substation.

Going to the underpass at NHP, I can see heavy road work with slats for the walls. I'm guessing this will be where ramps or even elevators for it to make it ADA accessible will be fitted in.

Near Mineola there are sections of sound wall with "X's" spray-painted on them indicating defective.

Everyone - New track numbers at Floral Park Station effective March 8, 2021:
Platform A will serve Track M3; Platform B will now serve Track M1 on the Main Line.
Platform B will now serve Track H1 west; Platform C will serve Track H2 east on the Hempstead Branch.
http://web.mta.info/supplemental/lirr/l ... l-park.htm

The timing for this change is interesting - with the service reductions under the March 8 timetables there
will be no Main Line trains stopping at Floral Park on weekday mornings which was three westbounds at
Platform A and three eastbounds at Platform B. Floral Park will be served exclusively by Hempstead Branch
trains only for the time being...MACTRAXX

Today, I traversed the stretch of the Main Line between Floral Park and Mineola and made observations. First, there is hardly any 3rd track built between Floral Park and Mineola. Next, I was standing on the temporary eastbound platform at Mineola this morning and saw the foundations for what looks like the brand new eastbound platform post third track. It looks like the eastbound platform will be against the parking deck. I did notice the Main Street grade crossing in Mineola closed. I also still got to see Nassau Tower from my train from Sea Cliff to Mineola and boy I must say that that Nassau Tower has certainly seen better days. I would love to see it restored to be kept in a museum. However, it sounds like the structure will be gone completely. Is there any timeline for when Nassau Tower will be gone? I would love to get some more photos of it with trains in the background. I wanted to today but unfortunately, I didn't have the time. That's very good to know about no Main Line trains stopping at Floral Park on weekday mornings after the schedule change tomorrow. Honestly, right now, it doesn't make much of a difference as Floral Park is typically served by Hempstead trains.

MACTRAXX wrote: ↑Sun Mar 07, 2021 6:19 pm Everyone - New track numbers at Floral Park Station effective March 8, 2021:
Platform A will serve Track M3; Platform B will now serve Track M1 on the Main Line.
Platform B will now serve Track H1 west; Platform C will serve Track H2 east on the Hempstead Branch.
http://web.mta.info/supplemental/lirr/l ... l-park.htm

I take it after the 3rd track project is complete, H1 will be renamed M2 with only one designated Hempstead track through Floral Park and Bellerose stations. This will be interesting at Bellerose as it will be served by H1 Eastbound and M2 Eastbound.