LI City Float Alco S1 #421 goes swimming!

http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/workingyard%20A.htm


1. As I understand it: The apron is between the end of land and the float barge.

2. Able to be moved up/down for tide purposes.

3. Would like folks to explain winches, tow lines. cables , etc.

4. Can I assume an Item #3 failure sent the LIRR S1 #421 swimming?

5. Date when did this happen?: We know it is pre CRR 04/01/77 Info: JJ Earl

Thanks.
Steve

Best,
Steve

As posted on the other forum:

Few things could have happened...

The suspension of the bridges is operated by a powered nut drive screw arrangement. If I had to guess ( merely a guess ) is the right one failed and busted off, thus the right side bridge goes crashing down, snaps the toggle bars and the weight of the engine causes the bridge to twist.

Its possible one of the threaded rods snapped from fatigue.

Its possible one of the counterweight cables snapped and caused a chain reaction.

If only the photos were zoomed out a little more..

Maybe JJ or one of our other former employees remember the details..

This type of bridge uses whats known as a contained apron ( aka the French type, after inventor James B. French). The bridge and the apron are one. The bridge is 110ft long, and the contained apron is 30, which is set inside the bridge. The contained apron allowed more movement, as well as the twisting. The contained portion was allowed to go with the flow. The bridge was hinged at land and the outer supported via the gantry. The drive nuts move the bridge up and down with counterweights taking up stress.

A pair of power winches were at either side used to haul the float in alignment and keep it tight. It might be possible ( but I doubt ) a line snapped causing the float to sway. This leading to the float backing out of the toggles ( toggles are chocked in ), in which the weight taken up by the toggles would cause the bridge to jump. I doubt this happened as the bridge operator would be taking up the tension on the toggles via the drive nuts in the gantry and in the time it takes for all this to happen im sure he would realize what was going on..but as I said..I think the only way to know is from somebody there..

Heres a page of mine going into more detail of the types of float bridges:
http://trainweb.org/AbandonedLIRR/bridges.htm

Paul

Here's a story that BMC may recall, though it happened a bit before his time. By the way, the photo in the post above was taken by Conductor JJ Earl if memory serves me correctly.

I don't know if it was this incident, but an RS-1 went into the water when some ancient car float cracked in half and the coal cars being hauled off of it pulled the engine into the drink.

As it was getting dragged, the yardmaster was yelling to the crew, "Cut the engine! Save the engine!". The crew, concerned more with the briney grave awaiting them than the old iron hulk, jumped and watched Mr. Alco join Neptune.

The yardmaster was so distraught he marched into Jamaica and resigned.

After a few months of no paycheck, he had a change of heart and back into Superintendent Roche's office he went, this time to beg for his job back.

They took him back, but he had to go back to the bottom of the roster... which left him only a few men older than BMC, a wide-eyed Bureau clerk at the time.

So, is there still an ALCo down there?

No.

Back in the NY Times archives I found copies of an article in 66' I think it was of a few coal cars going in the river and they were still pulling them out a week later.. Im gonna guess this is the incident Tool is referring to?.

They keep the River and the bay fairly clean of debris..East river is the marine highway to CT and MA..cant have anything in the way down there..

5 Bridge didn't seem to have luck..It was out of service in 67' to for an unknown incident.

Talk about a hidden gem! The photos on Steve's site have several excellent shots of the reach car. That has always been a difficult car to catch in any photos. At some point I'm planning on modeling one of the LIRR float docks and getting a good model built of the reach car was looking to be a tough task given so few good shots.

And these are in color to boot!

Anyone know what that lettering is on the left of the door on the car? Looks like a number.

I recently talked with the brakeman who was on the job on that day.
I asked him to write something up to post here, but he says he doesn't type very well and that he could tell me in just a few words.
He told me it was still daylight when they had coupled up to the first car on the float. He then swung down off the float flat to get between the flat and the first car and bent down to hang th (air) hose when he heard this loud noise. He jumped and looked around and saw the engine starting to tilt and the float under his feet start to move.
He told me that he didn't know that he could move so fast but when it all settled down, he was safely out of the way.
When the trainmaster on duty came to the scene, he asked my friend "How fast were you going"
This was the standard question asked at all mishaps, found on page one of the New Trainmaster's Handbook.
"We were standin' still" was Danny's reply.
"Aww! Bull---t" came the bellow of New Trainmaster.
Words got a little testy until everyone understood that this was the boss.
Yes, Tool, I did hear about this mishap and the next day I came in early with my camera to take the pictures that Steve has on his web page.
To make a long story short, no one was injured, no one was disciplined, five bridge was put out of service and 421 was cut up for scrap ( there were new engines on order anyhow)
It wasn't long afterward that all floating operations came to halt with the advent of Conrail.

scopelliti wrote:Talk about a hidden gem! The photos on Steve's site have several excellent shots of the reach car. That has always been a difficult car to catch in any photos. At some point I'm planning on modeling one of the LIRR float docks and getting a good model built of the reach car was looking to be a tough task given so few good shots.

And these are in color to boot!

Anyone know what that lettering is on the left of the door on the car? Looks like a number.

Please reference the weblinks, if you can, for other folk. I may have more to help you.

AND:

Based on the interest it may be time for idler car/float car/reach car webpage; just need a bit more info AND motivation... tee hee

Best,
Steve

JJ recently sent me some more of these LIC shots and maybe if we all beg him he'll add the rest of them to this thread.

He also sent me some very sad pictures of the Richmond Hill Yard offices in 1985 with two Yardmasters that taught me the ropes and a bunch of guys that both of us worked with. Sadly, almost all of them have 'pinned ahead' to that big yard in the sky.

Yes Tool, as you correctly state, I was not a Yardmaster yet, but heard about the float bridge story all the time.

JJ ... while not exactly a common place thing. There were a bunch of unexpected dunkings down there am I right?

And this entire area with the bridges still intact and even a section of track are now a beautiful NY state park called Gantry Park.

It has areas to sunbathe, fish, eat lunch or just admire one of the best views of the East River and the Manhattan skyline.

Thomas J McGurl.. Great man and Yardmaster.....
As Tommy would say
ehhh Couple the road engine coming in on 1
ehhh cut the block car on 2
Could still hear that voice over the yard loudspeakers..
Right BMC?????

Tom (who had the unique and VERY rare honor of having a facility named after him WHILE HE WAS STILL ALIVE) was the Yardmaster who taught me the first trick.

Sadly, he is gone and was in some of JJ's photos. Trying to discern the "whys" of his switching (not so much the 'how') was a head scratching experience. He drilled weeks ahead of time as far as EIC's or PI"s and if a consist did not have a toilet in every other car ... it was getting drilled.

But yes Chris , you got it down perfect. Long after Yardmaster's had no dress code anymore, Tom would come to work in a dress shirt and a tie every day.

Yes, Tom had his pecuiarities. He did it by the book. When I hired out, he was a switchtender in Bay Ridge and he was the only one who had his pants tied at the ankles. I mentioned this to him years later and he replied "It was required" For safety sake.
One day our crew started to switch some cars and rearrange trains in the Storage Yard when my brakeman, who was an extra man, complained that the cars that we were switching around were all of one type.
I told him "Just do things the way "Himself" tells you to do it. He has his reasons and we don't have to know why.