Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

JoeG wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 7:14 pm I doubt if this route would get enough patronage to justify its construction.

Well Mr. Grossman, it seems to be you and I against all the "disciples" around here of that Connect US "coloring book".

photobug56 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 6:26 pm

Bracdude181 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:43 am The latter sounds like grade A entertainment! Provided there’s no one in the blast radius.

Yeah, but in my bad moments I can imagine a few politicians, the ones that lie the most... But none will be named, though they do tend to be anti Amtrak...

Modern problems require modern solutions.

Also, it's using something funded to help with something not as funded.
As (I imagine) real estate is cheap in nepa, I wonder I'd a bright line operation could make this work.

If and when this happens, it will need good marketing, especially in NYC, both to get commuters out of their cars, but also to show an easier way to get to resorts (ski, water) in the Poconos, and it will need shuttles to the resorts, and at times to the state college on its route. Scranton, the local rail authorities, Steamtown National Historic Site, Electric City, certain hotels all need to be part of this to build up tourism. Martz Trailways might provide the shuttles to help make up for lost business and to provide ongoing service to places like Wilkes Barre. Keep in mind that if the (moronic) Port Authority ever gets around to demolishing its NYC midtown terminal, no matter what they do as a temp fill in will make commuting by bus via NJ far more difficult.

So about a three hour travel time. I guess that’s okay, but making that shorter might be doable.

I think I recall reading somewhere that Amtrak would come out of Hoboken stopping at Newark, Dover and one or two other places along the way.

3 hours? I don't think so. In 1952, the Phoebe Snow made Hoboken-Scranton in 3 hours 15 minutes. This was the best time. But these days Hoboken-Dover times are about 20 minutes longer than in Lackawanna days. And, the railroad in PA is not in as good shape as it was then. So a realistic time NY-Scranton is more like 4 hours. Driving time is around 2 hours according to Google; presumably rush hour times are longer. So, aside from railfans, I don't see how this route would be very attractive to passengers. 133 miles in 4 hours? That's 33 mph.

JoeG wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 11:07 am 3 hours? I don't think so. In 1952, the Phoebe Snow made Hoboken-Scranton in 3 hours 15 minutes. This was the best time. But these days Hoboken-Dover times are about 20 minutes longer than in Lackawanna days. And, the railroad in PA is not in as good shape as it was then. So a realistic time NY-Scranton is more like 4 hours. Driving time is around 2 hours according to Google; presumably rush hour times are longer. So, aside from railfans, I don't see how this route would be very attractive to passengers. 133 miles in 4 hours? That's 33 mph.

Sounds about right, but don't let "facts" get in the way!

lensovet wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 12:34 pm
Sounds about right, but don't let "facts" get in the way!

As a commuter line, it's questionable. As an intercity service, it could work. Just give the train some amenities, like a pool and a discotheque.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrot4rRCBwE

Care for a "redux" of this fiasco, Mr. Johnson?

https://annelandmanblog.com/2016/03/the ... -happened/

$35 million to fix the tunnel is quite expensive. Was not the entire Project to restart service to Andover set at $61 million.

Matt Johnson wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 1:05 pm

lensovet wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 12:34 pm
Sounds about right, but don't let "facts" get in the way!

As a commuter line, it's questionable. As an intercity service, it could work. Just give the train some amenities, like a pool and a discotheque.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrot4rRCBwE

and a royal @#$#ton of cocaine.
Damn, someone else beat me to the supertrain reference.
But , realistically, could an operation with the amenities of brightline, which is actually integrated with local attractions and transportation, make a go of it? With three hours transportation time to midtown NYC, and more than 2 trains a day, it's likely.

JoeG wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 11:07 am 3 hours? I don't think so. In 1952, the Phoebe Snow made Hoboken-Scranton in 3 hours 15 minutes. This was the best time. But these days Hoboken-Dover times are about 20 minutes longer than in Lackawanna days. And, the railroad in PA is not in as good shape as it was then. So a realistic time NY-Scranton is more like 4 hours. Driving time is around 2 hours according to Google; presumably rush hour times are longer. So, aside from railfans, I don't see how this route would be very attractive to passengers. 133 miles in 4 hours? That's 33 mph.

It can take an hour or more just to get from Manhattan to NJ by car or bus. And then a couple hours across I80 to the Delaware bridge, as much as an hour to cross. IOTW, it's a miserable commute by car or bus. Do the tracks in PA need improvement? Sure. But would this be an improvement over many commutes? Yes. And for tourists as well.

As to that speed, it's better than a fair number of runs on LIRR. When I commuted out of HPA on one train, it would pull out the usual few minutes late, then sit for 20 minutes before finally heading to Jamaica, which could take 20 minutes to go through. Another, 2 train run out of Penn takes over 90 minutes to go 40 miles.

scratchyX1 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 7:19 pm

Matt Johnson wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 1:05 pm

lensovet wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 12:34 pm
Sounds about right, but don't let "facts" get in the way!

As a commuter line, it's questionable. As an intercity service, it could work. Just give the train some amenities, like a pool and a discotheque.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrot4rRCBwE

and a royal @#$#ton of cocaine.
Damn, someone else beat me to the supertrain reference.
But , realistically, could an operation with the amenities of brightline, which is actually integrated with local attractions and transportation, make a go of it? With three hours transportation time to midtown NYC, and more than 2 trains a day, it's likely.

In regards to commuting, have you ever driven at rush hour from midtown Manhattan to Scranton, or taken the bus? Not fun to sit in a cramped seat in either case, though at least with the bus you do have the built in cesspool.

That Marlboro train sounds fun, aside from the fact that I'm a non-smoker! I do wonder whether there is sufficient recreational market for a Poconos rail service, but I do see it being more of an Amtrak type service than NJ Transit if it ever happens.

For now, I'll have to settle for local rail excursions that remind us of what once was, and maybe could be again. I was born too late for the Phoebe Snow but Here I am in Honesdale, PA in 2020.

Mr. Johnson et al, here is actually quite a bit of material regarding the Marlboro Train out there:

https://www.themetrains.com/marlboro-un ... roster.htm

Even though all cars, whether already built and acquired, as well as those built for the train were scrapped, there was an auction held for fittings and machinery to be applied to the cars:

https://www.theauctionmill.com/auction/ ... l-auction/

The locomotives were sold and placed in service with LA Metrolink.

Now, how about back to the intent of this epic, the eight-mile extension of NJT into Sussex County - at least that is what this topic originator had in mind now almost eighteen years ago!!!

Bracdude181 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 9:17 am So about a three hour travel time. I guess that’s okay, but making that shorter might be doable.

I think I recall reading somewhere that Amtrak would come out of Hoboken stopping at Newark, Dover and one or two other places along the way.

The intent is to use the NEC North River tunnels and NY Penn Station. Stations to be (the "NEW" means new to Amtrak service): "Proposed Stations
Scranton, PA (NEW)
Tobyhanna, PA (NEW)
Mount Pocono, PA (NEW)
East Stroudsburg, PA (NEW)
Blairstown, NJ (NEW)
Dover, Morristown, and Summit (NEW)
Newark-Broad (NEW)
New York Penn Station" https://www.amtrakconnectsus.com/maps/n ... -scranton/