Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

Exactly. And allow the Pocono resorts to get people to come by trains instead of cars, thus lightening the load on I80. Martz Bus could do a resort shuttle service between train stations and the resorts, and even the big shopping outlets. Could create a tourism boom if well marketed as far as Long Island. Plus if train service goes far enough, it could be a much better way for college kids to get to a variety of schools that right now are a pain to get to, especially during holiday weekends during the school year. Potentially a lot at stake here, far more than some people realize.

What is the current news regarding progress in finishing the route to Andover. And how large with spaces will the station lot be?

pateljones wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 1:08 pm What is the current news regarding progress in finishing the route to Andover. And how large with spaces will the station lot be?

Roseville Tunnel won't be started on until October at the earliest as no contracts have been approved yet. The completion date has been moved up to 2025. Don't know if they've gotten far enough along to finalize the parking lot.

Yes, MARTZ could certainly do those last few mile connections from the train/current bus stations stations to the resorts. The reason why I mentioned train/current bus stations is that in my opinion the projected travel times for Amtrak from NYP-Scranton are slated to be over an hour slower than driving. If the existing route north of E. Stroudsburg can't have a few of those very sharp horseshoe curves eliminated, then it just makes sense for NJT to run trains as far north as E. Stroudsburg and then Martz can possibly provide bus connections from the E. Stroudsburg train station all the way to Scranton making the stops in Mt. Pocono and Tobyhanna. Maybe if there is a resort area along the way from E. Stroudsburg to Scranton, then the bus can make stops there.

Who needs a train if most of the trip is by bus. Local bus connections sure, but a few hours in a cramped bus on 8- and 380 in stopped traffic, not worth going to Penn for.

Pleased to learn that NJT apparently has "shussed" Hootie the Owl and all his friends so that they are moving ahead with clearing the Roseville Tunnel.

But I'd like to think that within this 5570 post "epic" we have established that Sussex County is as far as NJT need go. What we must consider, as surely has NJT, is this apparent COVID-era "flight to the Burbs" could come to a halt post-COVID. With such "just around the corner", the likes of my Sister's fellow no-VAX Evangelists and Trumpers notwithstanding, the move could easily well reverse course and NJT will scratch the project - dead.

Let us not forget that to continue Westward and over the River (that bridge may still be there, but I cringe when driving under it on the 80; so must others who care about their cars), as well as upgrading the DL&W to Class 3 however far West as needed at a minimum is "someone else's baby".

Now where a "last mile" bus transfer could help would be to serve communities Northward on the 206 to Newton, thence Westward on the 94 into Warren County. But why bother with Monroe County PA? What do they do beyond their fares to benefit the State of New Jersey?

All told, good to know "something's happening", but these dreams or resurrecting the Phoebe Snow are simply just that - dreams.

Roseville Tunnel won't be started on until October at the earliest as no contracts have been approved yet. The completion date has been moved up to 2025. Don't know if they've gotten far enough along to finalize the parking lot.

This is not what NJT told the county this April -- "rebuilding of Roseville Tunnel beyond the scope initially envisioned necessitates the need for additional funding resources yet to be identified".

Just as an aside, before my daughter was born we took a ride from Steamtown to the Delaware Water Gap where there was a big display showing the reintroduction of service along the Lackawanna cut-off to Scranton. It was ready to go as soon as the funding got approved. My daughter was born in 1985. If there is actually service to Andover by 2025 that will be a miracle. Same with the service from Camden to Glassboro we've been waiting for for over forty years. If service ever does return to Scranton along this route it will be so far in the future that nobody on this board will be alive to see it.

I was born in 1984 and learned about Scranton in, I want to say 1994. In 4th grade, I learned about Steamtown through my elementary school art teacher. If NJT service begins to Andover in 2025, that will be a start. It will be very good for those people who live in Lower Sussex County plus parts of Warren County. It looks like people living in Newton will use Andover Station as it is just a matter of a drive down 206. I'm not counting on service returning to Scranton anytime soon if at all. If NJT can at least run a more frequent service to E. Stroudsburg, than what Amtrak is planning to Scranton, then that would be good.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:22 am Pleased to learn that NJT apparently has "shussed" Hootie the Owl and all his friends so that they are moving ahead with clearing the Roseville Tunnel.

But I'd like to think that within this 5570 post "epic" we have established that Sussex County is as far as NJT need go. What we must consider, as surely has NJT, is this apparent COVID-era "flight to the Burbs" could come to a halt post-COVID. With such "just around the corner", the likes of my Sister's fellow no-VAX Evangelists and Trumpers notwithstanding, the move could easily well reverse course and NJT will scratch the project - dead.

Let us not forget that to continue Westward and over the River (that bridge may still be there, but I cringe when driving under it on the 80; so must others who care about their cars), as well as upgrading the DL&W to Class 3 however far West as needed at a minimum is "someone else's baby".

Now where a "last mile" bus transfer could help would be to serve communities Northward on the 206 to Newton, thence Westward on the 94 into Warren County. But why bother with Monroe County PA? What do they do beyond their fares to benefit the State of New Jersey?

All told, good to know "something's happening", but these dreams or resurrecting the Phoebe Snow are simply just that - dreams.

You are missing the point completely - it is not just about New Jersey, it is about pollution, long commutes, heavy traffic and more in the tri state area, in this case from New Yok City through New Jersey into Eastern and Northeastern PA. And yes, New Jersey is badly affected by the heavy traffic on I80 and across the river into PA and farther on 80 and then on to Scranton. Quality of life plus that air pollution. That is why this is being pushed, not just to help a few commuters in one spot.

"Going out to Mr. Photobug":



I respect your social and environmental thoughts calling for full restoration of the Cutoff and the DL&W through Pennsylvania with FRA Class 3 or better.

But it's New Jersey who is scouring up the funds from their own taxpayers and the Feds for this project. The voters expect their elected leaders to look out for them.

Now who knows what kind of infrastructure legislation will be enacted during Joe's presidency. It will be something much less than Joe envisioned on Inauguration Day, and who knows how much of that will trickle down to passenger rail.

By the time we get to intercity passenger service over the Cutoff and the DL&W, I think there would only be enough to feed the consultants at the trough.

But hey, we'll have some nice colorings books.

As I understand it, there will be support from PA, etc. But a huge benefit comes to NJ just to lighten the load on I80.

I've been on I-80 in that area many times, and it is indeed problematic. I think this service is long overdue, and apparently, Amtrak does too.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:22 am Now where a "last mile" bus transfer could help would be to serve communities Northward on
the 206 to Newton?

Lakeland runs service on 206 (Route 80 commuter service to PABT), a connection could be made at Andover
station. 206 parallels the old Sussex Branch and even the Lakeland bus stop at Cranberry Lake is at the old
station.

Update. Start of service to Andover now set for 2027. https://www.njherald.com/story/news/tra ... 409487001/