Lackawanna Cut Off Abandonment

Can anyone enlighten me on the reason for abandonment of the Lackawanna Cutoff route? Such an engineering marvel and what a waste. I was told once that CR purposely tore the rails out so no other rr would use it and compete. Can anyone tell me when it was last used, that official date of abandonment. And how far the D-L travels eastward in PA. Also, does the line in Portland that runs north-south along the Deleware River see any traffic?

To add to my post above, what is NS doing with the 'old main' that runs north and south along the Del River. I just saw a pic taken in 2005 of Slateford Jct and there is now a 2 track yard that was full of cars. Last time I saw slateford jct it was a rusty track covered in weeds.

There is a very active thread on this: http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... &start=135

NS Runs Coal, Grain and interchange traffic (For DL) up the Portland secondary. Plus they service various customers along the way. Its a fairly busy line from what I gather.

There are also some active threads here on this forum concerning the Lackawanna Cut-Off: http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11318 http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=436 http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=458 http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4667

Check them out

washingtonsecondary wrote:NS Runs Coal, Grain and interchange traffic (For DL) up the Portland secondary. Plus they service various customers along the way. Its a fairly busy line from what I gather.

One of those is a plastic regrind plant in Portland, PA, which gets plastic pellet cars.

It seems like so much ancient history now, but I can offer what a former EL guy told me as it happened. And it really is fairly simple, as other posters have indicated.

Conrail was completely focused(obsessed?)with eliminating any competition that might arise as it pertained to The Port of New York. With the DL&W/EL/Conrail intact from Scranton east, another road, most assuredly The D&H, could obtain direct access to The Port of New York. The D&H didn't have the money to buy the ROW, but was interested in using the federal legalese that created Conrail to their advantage in obtaining trackage rights on the line. Before this could happen, Conrail scrapped The Cut-Off, and subsequently tore track out in The Poconos. And there it was - No track-No trains-No competition.

My old EL friend, and countless other EL men, were livid that Conrail was allowed to do this. But that was the sad fact, they could do it, and they did.

As an afterthought; I'd strongly suggest that if Conrail hadn't eliminated The Cut-Off, passenger rail from Hoboken to Scranton would've been restored, and maybe as long as twenty years ago.

AFAIR, Conrail offered the line intact, with rail to the State of NJ for a few million dollars. At the time NJ didn't see a need for it and or didn't have the money and passed on the deal. Conrail pulled the tracks and sold to Mr. Turco. I believe the State always had the right of first refusal for any rail line Conrail wanted to abandon.

The D&H already had trackage rights to Newark via the Lehigh Line, which they still have to this day. Don't see a need why they would have wanted to run freight down the Cutoff especially with the commuter traffic on the east end and less than favorable grades to Great Notch. Then with no real outlet on the east end of the line, it would not have worked for them.

Chris

IIRC, D&H had acquired the DL&W/EL from Binghamton to Scranton, which would allow them a direct shot from all of their NY State connections into The Port of New York, and it would've been on their own rails, if they'd purchased the line east of Scranton. The grades were there, but using The Cut-Off would've eliminated running at least 60 miles further south and east before swinging east to NYC. Maybe a coin-toss? I really don't know. All I do know is what I got from former EL men, and how they portrayed what they saw as a huge betrayal, not only by Conrail, but by elected federal officials(chiefly a congressman) for not stepping in and halting the destruction.

...running freight over the Cut Off for CR, D&H, or anybody was the heavy NJT traffic east of Port Morris, catenary Dover to Denville, the BoontonLine/Greenwood Lake single track line with Great Notch grade, the old lady in Great Notch who did not want trains after 10PM at night, others who did not (and still don't) want weekend traffic. Then there was getting into the PRR Meadows yard as Croxton was being phased out and the River LIne was interchanged via Weehawken and Journal Sq. In otherwords, after coming east to Port Morris, there was no place to go but court to get to the Hudson. Rip it up!

Inside the top management floors at Conrail at that time, the key worry was Chessie gaining the old DL&W into the New Jersey market. Chessie was very active politically to gain this entry.

Conrail saw the D&H as a secondary threat, and a weak one. In fact, they really shafted the D&H on the later enforced trackage rights runs. They would red signal a train in the middle of nowhere saying it was sudden maintenance (which it wasn't) and wait until the crew timed out. Made for terrible D&H service.

If you're gonna run quality service, YOU own the line, YOU maintain it, YOU dispatch it.

Was the ripping up of the Cut off the reason why Chessie partenered with D and H and NYS adn W to rebuild the NYSW over Sparta Mountain in 85 - 86???

I would think that that routing and rebuilding was a last resort, and they went forward with it, mainly to go to Conrail "HA we got in anyway!!!!!"

Did the death of one line, lead to the resurection of another one???

I'm not sure of the partnering agreement, but I do know that Conrail ripped up the LHR line south of Limecrest almost immediately after the Susquehanna reopened their line west of Butler, to ensure that no alternate access to Allentown existed.

...the EL route either via the Cut Off or the Delaware was a threat to the PRR and NYC routes. NY State poured money into the Delaware division and CR had a perfomance and service agreement on the Southern Tier Line which apparently became null and void with the NS and CSX purchase. The NYS&W was, and is, a cheap way to keep the track in place but not having to operate or maintain it. CR across the board knew the value of the EL line from Ohio east; didn't want it at the expense of the PRR and NYC lines and therefore didn't want anyone else to have it for fear of good competition. The Cut Off, it must be noted, was actually abandoned by the EL when they stopped running BInghamton east over the DL in favor of the Delaware DIv. Catenary east of Dover, traffic congestion in the commuter zone, the hill up and down at Great Notch, and the agreement made at the EL merger to give the DL Boonton Line to Interstate 80 included satisfying at least one old woman by not running trains after 10PM at night and on weekends. Eliminating the Cut OFF by the EL was a no brainer. CR's lifting the track was criminal.

henry6 wrote:...the EL route either via the Cut Off or the Delaware was a threat to the PRR and NYC routes. NY State poured money into the Delaware division and CR had a perfomance and service agreement on the Southern Tier Line which apparently became null and void with the NS and CSX purchase. The NYS&W was, and is, a cheap way to keep the track in place but not having to operate or maintain it. CR across the board knew the value of the EL line from Ohio east; didn't want it at the expense of the PRR and NYC lines and therefore didn't want anyone else to have it for fear of good competition. The Cut Off, it must be noted, was actually abandoned by the EL when they stopped running BInghamton east over the DL in favor of the Delaware DIv. Catenary east of Dover, traffic congestion in the commuter zone, the hill up and down at Great Notch, and the agreement made at the EL merger to give the DL Boonton Line to Interstate 80 included satisfying at least one old woman by not running trains after 10PM at night and on weekends. Eliminating the Cut OFF by the EL was a no brainer. CR's lifting the track was criminal.

Yes, true, but then the Cutoff got a reprise by 1974 or so as more freight trains were rerouted off the Tier and on to the Scranton division...... Between 1974 and the advent of Conrail their were 12-15 through freights that ran via the Cutoff and Great Notch.....

Steve