Railroad Forums 

  • Kickers?

  • General discussion about railroad operations, related facilities, maps, and other resources.
General discussion about railroad operations, related facilities, maps, and other resources.

Moderator: Robert Paniagua

 #352930  by Pj
 
What exactly is a kicker? Looking at an accident report for something that happened near me...
PROCEEDING IN AN EAST DIRECTION ON #2 MAIN TRACK, SIGNAL 103-2 INDICATION WAS APPROACH, PREPARING TO STOP AT PARKERS. ENGR MADE A MINIMUM AUTOMATIC REDUCTION - THE TRAIN WENT INTO EMERGENCY DUE TO A KICKER. IN ADDITION, ENGR APPLIED INDEPENDENT BRAKE TO KEEP THE SLACK IN. THE AIR TO THE TRAIN WAS RECOVERED (THE ANGLE COCK ON AMGX 7072 WAS CLOSED WHEN THE DRAWBAR DISLOGED). NO VISUAL INSPECTION WAS PERFORMED. THE CREW PROCEDDED EAST FOR ABOUT 4900 FEET, AND TRAIN WENT INTO EMERGENCY AGAIN DUE TO AGMX 7072 A END DETRUCKED INTO CP PARKER SWTICH
 #352978  by ExEMDLOCOTester
 
Pj wrote:What exactly is a kicker? Looking at an accident report for something that happened near me...
PROCEEDING IN AN EAST DIRECTION ON #2 MAIN TRACK, SIGNAL 103-2 INDICATION WAS APPROACH, PREPARING TO STOP AT PARKERS. ENGR MADE A MINIMUM AUTOMATIC REDUCTION - THE TRAIN WENT INTO EMERGENCY DUE TO A KICKER. IN ADDITION, ENGR APPLIED INDEPENDENT BRAKE TO KEEP THE SLACK IN. THE AIR TO THE TRAIN WAS RECOVERED (THE ANGLE COCK ON AMGX 7072 WAS CLOSED WHEN THE DRAWBAR DISLOGED). NO VISUAL INSPECTION WAS PERFORMED. THE CREW PROCEDDED EAST FOR ABOUT 4900 FEET, AND TRAIN WENT INTO EMERGENCY AGAIN DUE TO AGMX 7072 A END DETRUCKED INTO CP PARKER SWTICH
KICKER—Triple valve in defective order, which throws air brakes into emergency when only a service application is intended, or sometimes by a bump of the train

http://catskillarchive.com/rrextra/glossry1.Html

:-D

 #353003  by Aji-tater
 
Imagine driving your car, you want to slow down slightly so you lightly touch the brake...suddenly your brakes lock up hard. Totally different braking systems of course but that's the result. Kickers have been around about as long as air brakes, years ago they were also known as ''dynamiters". Various cures have been tried over the years including heavier springs on some of the internal components of the brake valves, different lubrication, and others. Nothing has totally cured the problem.

In the case you mention, the crew was doubly unlucky. When the train dumped, it pulled out a drawbar and apparently either derailed the car it came out of, or knocked it off center. But in the process it hit the angle cock and closed it. Freaky but it has happened. When the train stopped and the engineer released the brakes, the air restored. Maybe they had already had problems with the kicker that trip, but the crew didn't walk the train. They figured because the air came back up, it was only a kicker. After they went about a mile the derailed car came to a switch and the truck came totally out from under the car.

Today's rules require you to inspect the whole train after an emergency application such as this but you didn't give a date on the incident so maybe such a rule was not in effect.

Kickers are the ultimate crew alerter - seems they always happen when you're relaxed and not suspecting a thing. The standard response to a kicker is usually "Oh sh**!" in unison from all those in the cab.

 #353007  by Pj
 
It was last year. From what I have been told, the train wasn't walked after the first emergency application...which I was told would have found the car issue prior to the derailment.

I have only seen the "facesheet" of the accident. I don't know if there was one of those 20 page + accident reports on something like this (or at least I couldn't find the right search engine on the FRA site).

 #353239  by TB Diamond
 
Yes, we on the BN in my seniority district did refer to this malfunction as a "dynamiter". Can be very difficult to isolate, even by carmen. This is especially so if it happens to be an intermittent problem, which I observed on more than one occasion. To boot, have experienced trains with more than one dynamiter. Makes for a very long trip.

 #353293  by CSX-COAL HAULER
 
Yea-a shooter-kicker-dynamitercan be a problem!!!! But there are ways to help the situation! You got to know the secrets-man!!!! :P :P :P

 #353331  by conrail_engineer
 
I should print this up - you know how much crap I have to listen to when we have a kicker and the lazy-ace conductor doesn't want to walk the train?

FWIW, CSX rules have been modified - if there's no hazmat, and the air comes up, the rules don't require a visual inspection. A few of these, though, and they (again) will...

 #353974  by BlackDog
 
I've had them kick with a false taper. Take that minimumjust fine, release it and then soon go after it again. BANG! Rats.

 #354033  by UPRR engineer
 
Havent tryed this yet, but i learned this in hoghead school for finding the dynamiter.

Dont send the air back till the conductors walked the one side.
When hes at the rear car, reset the air.
Once the conductor sees that piston on the last car go in, throw full service to it.
On the way back up to the headend, any cars that dont set up, have the conductor tag them and cut them out.

 #354194  by BlackDog
 
Old head trick I learned was to cut out the head car. It works 99% of the time.

 #356152  by Grantham
 
There are a few good ways to find random dynamiters, but three fruitless strikes and I cease to be interested in walking a train...whether it's four cars long or half a mile long. If it doesn't show by visual inspection (including secret railwaymen's business) or roll-by inspection, then the SCAT (single car air test) blokes need to get to work...

I've seen a brake examiner SCAT a whole train looking for a dynamiter, and boy did he cheer when he found it! Two psi out of the brake pipe initiated an emergency application...for no good or visible reason...! I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it!

M

 #356399  by Kick'em
 
Is this the same thing as a snapshot?