Just For Fun: A Survey

I thought this would be fun, and would help encourage people to participate in the GRS Forum.

Imagine for a moment that you are the General Manager of Locomotives at Guilford. Traffic is way up. Some of the older Geeps have suffered major mechanical failures and would not be economical to repair. There just aren't enough locomotives to go around. It's time to buy more. What do you do?

Ground rules: buying brand-new locomotives is not an option. Leasing locomotives is not an option. GE or Alco locomotives are not options. (Why? Because that's how Guilford does things. This is supposed to be a somewhat-realistic fantasy! )

Choose from the locomotives listed in the Poll section, and vote for the one locomotive that would best meet Guilford's needs for a variety of situations. For the sake of accuracy, the locomotives listed are ones that are actually available on the used market these days. If you would like to explain why you chose a particular locomotive, you can do so by replying to this topic.

Personally, I chose the SD50 for a couple of reasons. First, only some of the geeps suffered mechanical failures, so there are still some for locals and kicking cars. Second, the SD50's are a good horsepower for Guilford and they could be the strict runners on road freights. If track has not improved up in Pine Tree State, the GP40's that are remaining could work the road freights, and between Portland-EDY-RJ, the SD50's could stay. They run CSX six pack power to Rigby on occasion, and the Bow Coal trains and MOPO/EDMO run CP 6 packs constantly. SD50's would be the smartest because of their increased HP and road freight ability.

To look at the other reasons: A GP7 or a GP10, or a GP15-1 would not be strong enough for road ability...but good for switching. If need be, Guilford could pull a few of their GP9's out of Maine to work over the road (as we saw in Joey's post on NERAIL) and use some 7's or rebuilt 9's in the yards.

The GP38 would be one of my next choices, but I thought that it was kind of low HP, since GRS only has one left and has seemed to go with the GP40's, which have 1,000 more horsepower. It's a good road locomotive, but being realistic, I don't think Guilford would really want that.

An F40PH...I could see a few of those in Guilford paint, but as Joey's mentioned in one of the bottom posts (note, this has been edited) an F40PH can't switch. They'd be good for over the road, right, so if you wanted to back that up, keep the older geeps in the yards and use those. But how much HP do they have?

SD38-2 is a good locomotive, but I didn't think it was powerful enough for Guilford, plus, it is six axle, and RT mentioned that they do seem to like four axle power.

SD40T-2: RT mentioned that the guts are just about the same, and I think we do basically agree, I just went with the SD50 because it has more horsepower and I think Guilford might take that, as we've seen in the GP38/GP40.

So there, folks, is my response!

I voted for the SD40T-2.

My reasoning was nearly identical to Cam's (which he summed up quite well). In fact, I agree with him that the SD50 would likely be a good choice.

However, the reason I leaned toward the SD40T-2 is because, internally, it is very similar (if not almost identical) to the GP40s and GP40-2Ws which Guilford has aplenty. Aside from having six axles instead of four, and a different radiator setup, the "guts" of the loco are basically the same as the GP40s and -2Ws. That presents a number of advantages, such as simplified parts inventory and simplified maintenance (i.e., the mechanics who are already familiar with the GP40s and -2Ws will find the SD40T-2s very familiar).

I see that several of you voted for the GP38. Certainly, the GP38 has a fine service record and is one of EMD's most popular models of all time. However, for reasons unknown to me, there must be something about the GP38 that Guilford doesn't like. You will recall that Maine Central had 12 of them, and Guilford got rid of all but one -- despite the fact that they were all in good condition. Because of that, I also ruled out the SD38-2, which is another fine locomotive.

Some of you are probably thinking that, in order to stick with Guilford logic, I should have automatically ruled out the six-axle locomotives as well. And you're right: Guilford has definitely shown a preference for four-axle locomotives in recent years. Unfortunately, the number of servicable four-axle locomotives available on the used market continues to shrink. The few that are available are just as tired and worn out as the ones that Guilford already owns. Therefore, I think there may come a time in the not-so-distant future when Guilford will have no choice but to re-think its motive power strategy and consider the possibility of using six-axle locomotives, just as the vast majority of America's railroads have done.

Hello All,
Finally - a chance to tell Guilford what to do!
I went with the SD50. And heres why.
Although the SD-40-2 is an excellent locomotive, and very similar to the GP-40s as pointed out above, Guilford has in the past demonstrated that they prefer the higher horsepower locomotives. Case in point, the purchase of GP-40s over GP-38s, and the fact that they sold off the 38s they had on the roster.
The rebuilt GP-7s, 10s, and 15s probably don't have the power to do the jobs required of them, in terms of road jobs. They are excellent for kicking cars, but as mentioned, they still have 7s and 9s. If they were hurting that badly for motive power, I think we might see some rebuilt 7s and 9s emerge from Waterville shops. (Dreaming, but hey, who doesn't?) The F-40s, per my experience on the MM&A and BAR, are wonderful road units. I dare someone to try switching with one. Its like backing a 45 foot motor home with no rearview mirror. You can't see anything. Guilford in the past has wanted locos that could go anywhere, anytime, and do any job. The F-40 is not that locomotive.
A SD-38, although probably a very good locomotive, might be a little on the low side, power wise, for road jobs on Guilford.
Think that covers it!
Have fun everyone, this can be a fun thread!
cya, Joey

I just realized that I made a typo in the Poll section. VMV GP10 is a rebuilt EMD GP9. EMD did not make a GP10. Unfortunately I can't edit the Poll section.

I went with the F-40 option as these units are cheap compared to other 4-axle units and have the -2 electronics. This unit could go anywhere do anything if needed, unlike a SD-40-2 that would be regulated to the main line. It might not be pretty to switch with an F-40 but, they do work and some still have mirrors on the sides which could be adopted. The SD-50 I would just stay away from with the different head assembaly (645(F?)) and the electrical problems that they were known for in the past. Theirs a reson why the class-1's dumped their SD-50's while extending leases or still leasing out additional SD-40-2's. In anyform I would get what is cheap and reliable.

Matt

I opted for the Geep 15-1. You didn't specify for what type of service, but I figure that its probably for some of the secondary lines where the Geeps held sway 'til recently. SD-50s, and some of the others are O.K. for road trains, but they can't go everywhere, espescially some of the branches, unless they were maybe re-fitted with radial trucks, where as the GP-15-1s pretty mich can go anywhere on the system.

I voted for the SD40T-2. My first choice would have been the GP40-2 if that choice had been available, but as RT is apparently aware, there aren't many of those for sale anymore.

My second choice would be the GP15-1. Despite being only 1500 HP, they are good pullers, very reliable and very fuel efficient.

bar358 wrote:The SD-50 I would just stay away from with the different head assembaly (645(F?)) and the electrical problems that they were known for in the past. Theirs a reson why the class-1's dumped their SD-50's while extending leases or still leasing out additional SD-40-2's.

Most if not all of the initial problems with the SD50 have been worked out by now. Downrating them to a slightly lower horsepower also increases reliability/availability. Basically you end up with a newer SD40-2. An SD40-3 if you will. SD60s would be even better but I don't think there are any used ones for sale yet. Perhaps in a few years.

Lets not forget that Guilford has shown an affinity for "unpopular" and "unreliable" locomotives in the past! They did have a lot of GP35s and SD45s, which were purged by the bigger railroads. Thats why Guilford was able to get them so inexpensively. By the time Guilford got them, all the problems had been worked out. Guilford ended up with a bunch of pretty darn reliable units at very low cost.

camster202 wrote:An F40PH...I could see a few of those in Guilford paint, but as Joey's mentioned in one of the bottom posts (note, this has been edited) an F40PH can't switch. They'd be good for over the road, right, so if you wanted to back that up, keep the older geeps in the yards and use those. But how much HP do they have?

The F40PH has 3000 HP. For all intents and purposes it is a GP40-2 in a full cowl cardbody, and with HEP capability.

F40PHs rebuilt for freight duty would good road units, but the bigger SD40T-2s and SD50s would be better for yard switching. The majority of railroads in this country use 6 axle units for yard switching. Makes acceleration and braking much easier. Lots of railroads take old SD40s and rebuild them as SD38-2s, and sometimes adding a slug unit, specifically for yard duty.

I agree with that the GP-15 would be the best unit for branchs and yard work, and that the SD-40-2's would be best for road jobs on the southern end of their system. I just couldent see GRS putting SD's on switching jobs outside a few main yards. A SD would just not make it down to Bucksport with the light rail, or even NMJ without putting esxcessive wear on the track because of the curves. You can switch with an F-40 (Which I have), It's not the easierest to see in but it works and then can be thrown out on a road job. The SD-40-2 and GP-15 could'ent do the same job or do it efficently for the latter as a medium powered 4-axle.

Tunnel Motor SD40-2's or a straight SD50... seems best suited to GRS's profile and terrain. Seems like GRS's roster is pieced together and cobbed from wherever they can get it from- more like a Regional than a Class 1!

-otto-

Otto Vondrak wrote:Seems like GRS's roster is pieced together and cobbed from wherever they can get it from- more like a Regional than a Class 1!

that is because Guilford IS a regional, not a Class I!

I think that the GP40 (-2) fleet is the best. They were able to get the units cheap. Most of the class 1 lines got rid of the non -2 units in the last few years.
It appears that Guilford like its one size fits all power. The GP40 is suitable for road and locals. With a fairly small roter, it would be inflexable to have units only suitable for one type of service. That is part of the reason for 4 axle units. The GP 38 would be good, and so would the F40. The problem with the F40 is that it could not be used in local service, or single unit service. It would be more of a pain to have to make sure that the unit was turned. A GP 40 can run in both directions. Guilford is smart in adding ditch lights to both ends of many units.

What Engineer Spike said is absolutely correct. However, the number of servicable 4-axle units available on the used market is shrinking rapidly -- particularly GP40-type units. There just aren't that many left.

It might be possible that in the next 10-15 years Santa Fe will start retiring/selling their GP60s. But maybe not; after all, they're still running GP30s and GP35s too.