Railroad Forums 

  • Just Dreaming - What are the Chances of LIRR selling to NYA?

  • Discussion related to NYAR operations on Long Island. Official web site can be found here: www.anacostia.com/nyar/nyar.html. Also includes discussion related to NYNJ Rail, the carfloat operation successor to New York Cross Harbor that connects with NYAR.
Discussion related to NYAR operations on Long Island. Official web site can be found here: www.anacostia.com/nyar/nyar.html. Also includes discussion related to NYNJ Rail, the carfloat operation successor to New York Cross Harbor that connects with NYAR.
 #1066758  by NYCS
 
I probably know the answer to this, knowing the stranglehold and how protective LIRR remains of its system... but the thought crossed my mind and I'd like some of your thoughts/input.

There are several "freight only " lines such as the Buswhick, Bay Ridge, and to a degree - Lower Montauk. Since the LIRR barely uses these lines - if at all - and they are in a state of perpetual decay, what are the odds the LIRR would sell them to Anocostia & Pacific or a major Class 1 like CSX?

Or is this *completely* out of the realm of possibility? Like I said... just dreaming.
 #1066829  by hrfcarl
 
If the LIRR was in the selling mood, one would think the PA NY/NJ, with all its investment in the Brooklyn waterfront, would be interested in the Bay Ridge Branch. Allow direct access to CSX (Fresh Pond or rights to 65th St Yard) and might be more politically acceptable since this branch would still be in public hands.
 #1075165  by SlowFreight
 
hrfcarl wrote:If the LIRR was in the selling mood, one would think the PA NY/NJ, with all its investment in the Brooklyn waterfront, would be interested in the Bay Ridge Branch. Allow direct access to CSX (Fresh Pond or rights to 65th St Yard) and might be more politically acceptable since this branch would still be in public hands.
I can tell you that politically, it is absolutely completely unequivocally NOT (did I emphasize that enough?) acceptable for CSX to gain rights to the 65th St. Yard. Elected officials are specifically trying to get someone else to compete with CSX and the Albany Hump on Long Island, and no matter who wins station rights to 65th St., you will never see it go to CSX.

Myself, I'd rather see PANYNJ get out of the business of running the trains and lease out its rail assets like MTA did to the NYA. NYNJ Rail will never grow the business because if there's one thing government bodies are not set up to do, it's sales. Unfortunately, as long as Shared Assets is operated the way it does, 65th St. won't be a very competitive gateway.
 #1075180  by Backshophoss
 
Is the P+W restricted to stone trains only on MNR to the Hell Gate line??
P+W could be the only other RR able to "compete" with CSX for freight,but has a longer route to get to "Pan-Am Rly"/NS
for interchange. That routing may still be "Shakey" at best untill the upgrades are done.

Joint ops to BayRidge with NY+A could work.
PANYNJ is "entrenched" at 65th st. and they own the Barges/Tugs needed to make this work.
 #1075294  by DogBert
 
P&W= stone only.

CP still 'competes' with CSX though CSX is moving all their cars to LI, I believe they have a similar agreement upstate where CP moves some CSX cars in exchange.

So far as I can see cross harbor traffic is up a bit, so PA ownership hasn't done them any harm. I believe when the new auto unloading terminal, trash depo and whatever is going in on that pier come online the rails there will see a huge increase in freight that probably would have never happened if PA had not taken over.

Port Authority is a shady entity - government, but making money and lots of it. I don't think they give much of a damn about competing for freight from LI yet though. They just want their pet brooklyn waterfront terminal done so they can keep making money while getting trucks off the road bridges, which makes common folks happy regardless of who's getting paid in some back room deal... They'll probably try to get the NYC trash cars and then maybe compete for LI cars.
 #1075307  by Sir Ray
 
SlowFreight wrote:I'd rather see PANYNJ get out of the business of running the trains and lease out its rail assets like MTA did to the NYA. NYNJ Rail will never grow the business because if there's one thing government bodies are not set up to do, it's sales. Unfortunately, as long as Shared Assets is operated the way it does, 65th St. won't be a very competitive gateway.
Well, it wasn't like the predecessor private waterfront railroad companies were doing all that well before PA took over - was NYRR/NYNJ even earning any profits on it's Brooklyn operations? Greenville Ops, I recall reading they were doing OK with. In Brooklyn, in the last few years prior to PA ownership, didn't NYNJ retreat back to being basically a transload facility at the 50th street yard, and a transfer operation (bridge route?) to NY&A? (And serving that one client on First Avenue Yi-Pin - At least the PA restored the switch to that client)
 #1075387  by freightguy
 
The huge surge of traffic occured almost overnight on the NYRR now NYNJ. Back in 1999 when the CR split divested its ops to CSX and NS is when the traffic appeared. NS tried to send a lot of cars that way. A ton of lumber, plastic hoppers, and paper(Combined, Star Corrogated) originated on that end. I don't think as much is sent that way now partly to a slower economy and other factors.

In reference to P&W the stone agreement goes back to the Conrail dates around 1996/97 when CR let them bring the stone(only) directly to Fresh Pond. They won a marketing award in 2010 for originating something like 5000 carloads with this business for the NYC/LI market. Honorable mention to the failed bridge traffic move around 1999. Also In the years ahead you may see a change in operations in terms of freight and the operator. It's benefits are finally started to be seen by people in business and politics around the region. Privatized operators are bringing back what the MTA killed off by design since the mid 1960's.
 #1075545  by jayrmli
 
P&W = Stone only is not entirely true...

There is a provision in the agreement that cars other than aggregates can be hauled by P&W to Fresh Pond, but the catch is it has to be done in a trainload of 30 or more non-aggregate cars.

Jay