• Intermodal to Saint John

  • Discussion relating to the past and present operations of CPR. Official web site can be found here: CPR.CA.
Discussion relating to the past and present operations of CPR. Official web site can be found here: CPR.CA.

Moderators: Komachi, Ken V

  by NHV 669
 
Apparently that schedule is not yet in effect, as 142 passed Greenville at 1139 with 45 cars.
  by NHV 669
 
This morning's 251 cleared Greenville right at midnight with close to 90 cars, if I'm not mistaken it looked like the last three cars were flats? loaded with empty container chassis.
  by NHV 669
 
Today's 142 featured CP 8781, the Hapag-Lloyd unit, as the leader on a train that ironically didn't have a single container on it. 4 units, 61 manifest, and 47 empty wells east through Greenville Jct. at 14:55.
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  by F74265A
 
Msc container ship bound for SJ from Portugal is entering bay of fundy tonight

Perhaps another transatlantic svc coming to SJ?
  by CN9634
 
The Canada Express 2 service has been hitting Halifax and Montreal coming from Spain and Portugal, so this visit by the MSC LEIGH is a diversion from that with a SJ then Montreal call. I was told it is similar to the Hapag situation to lighten the draft for the voyage up the St. Lawrence. It could be a test for CP, or it could be a one-off Diversion due to congestion at Halifax, as they had been off-anchorage there and it seems that there are labor issues going on at Halifax.
  by F74265A
 
Interesting
The msc transatlantic boxes could be handled by either cp or cn at SJ. I understand from this forum that cn handles the boxes on the msc Caribbean svc at SJ
  by NHV 669
 
Been noticing EMP boxes on 142 recently... another test run?
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  by CN9634
 
EMP boxes are brokered with shippers directly or via their 3PLs, they can be reserved via a platform called Rez-1. They started cropping up on the Moosehead last year in small numbers, but more and more have been showing up as of late. A lot of it is consumer goods going to retail stores and distribution centers in New Brunswick and Nova Scotia. EMP is simply a box pool owned by some RRs, similar to an container TTX they are free runners within the network of the box owner RRs.

Rail contracts for steamship lines are lane specific and usually come with KPIs. A steamship line can seek additional capacity on other lanes within their contracted rail partners, either spot or in short-term 'ad-hoc' agreements. So for example, CP has a long term deal with Hapag, but they move some volumes via Halifax on CN. Since CP doesn't hit Halifax, Hapag has either grabbed spot capacity or created an ad-hoc agreement.

The MSC Canada Gulf service that calls Saint John also hits Montreal, and the rail routings for that from inland have always loaded/unloaded via MTL and not SJ. Only rail moves so far from MSC at SJ came when labor dispute hit Montreal. This move of the Canada Express 2 is a diversion from Halifax, likely due to capacity/congestion issues either at the port or rail (or both). I would guess, and its just a guess, that it's a spot move that will probably go CP due to capacity issues with CN or again the port. It could definitely be an evaluation too for a future service, but I wouldn't be surprised if you see those boxes rail out via CP (and they will rail out one way or another) just because there is excess capacity and I'm sure they priced it as such.
  by NHV 669
 
51 loaded wells did indeed move via 251 last night. Quite the variety of containers.

Detroit Express is now docked at Saint John.
  by CN9634
 
Mystery solved-- MSC boxes went out via CN 594 from SJ to Moncton
  by F74265A
 
CN9634 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:32 pm Mystery solved-- MSC boxes went out via CN 594 from SJ to Moncton
So no test for cp. And cn can compete with cp at SJ but cp cannot compete at Halifax. That’s got to hurt cp’s pricing power at SJ
At least hapag’s service is regular
Still waiting for a ceremony or announcement with that big orange hapag locomotive.
  by CN9634
 
I look at it actually as the complete opposite-- CP can now compete and is pushing CN into a harder situation. Two years ago CP had no option east of Montreal, which meant draft limitations up the St. Lawrence. Now, they have the ability to make offers on rates and provide 'alternatives' to CN. That port project has a big year coming up in 2022, with a lot of key items (Intermodal yard and new berth) getting finished up.

So the case of the MSC LEIGH, it was CN's traffic all along and perhaps not enough time to evaluate the CP lanes, since we know that the cargo was destined for CN ramps originally via Halifax. It sounds like it was a last minute move since the ship was waiting on dock time in Halifax. Moving forward, if Halifax is going to continue to see congestion, you might see more conversations develop with SJ and CP, which will evolve as the CP-KCS merger takes place. No where to go but up, and SJ does hold one advantage over Halifax after their expansion is complete-- duality in rail options.
  by F74265A
 
Very good points.
Thank you for the analysis
  by johnpbarlow
 
At about 2220 Friday 12/3/21, 251 passed the GJ cam with a half carload/half IM well consist with a CMQ unit 3rd in the power set. It looked like there were 24 regular carloads including a typical assortment of boxcars, tank cars, and loaded lumber centerbeams, followed by 7 wells with double stacked domestic cube containers (eg, CP & EMP), 1 auto rack, and 18 wells of single and double stacked international containers (eg, Hapag Lloyd & UASC). It was hard to tell in the darkness but the last 3 wells may have held double stacked domestic containers.
  by CN9634
 
Image

Interesting to see the PR similar to CPs there
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