• Intermodal to Saint John

  • Discussion relating to the past and present operations of CPR. Official web site can be found here: CPR.CA.
Discussion relating to the past and present operations of CPR. Official web site can be found here: CPR.CA.

Moderators: Komachi, Ken V

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  by carchecker
 
Both 907 and 908 run seven days a week now.
  by carchecker
 
If you're a member of the railnb FB page there is an excellent video by Brian Barchard of the 10,000 ft stack train going through Harvey Station August 8th.
  by NHV 669
 
Do you have a link to that page? None of the groups I'm in have posted much of these moves, visual wise.
  by fromway
 
St. John Port Authority report as of today says, 1 ship docked, 3 waiting at anchor. The 3 waiting at anchor have been waiting for more than 3 days to get in. I hope SJ speeds up the unloaded and loaded process or this will come to a quick halt.
  by CF14
 
The Port Authorities list does not seem to update then they depart. AIS shows the berth is open and the MSC Mediterranean waiting at anchor. The Maersk Patras has departed and the Detroit Express and AS Federica just departed Newark today and they are still on there.
  by CN9634
 
As with any change, there are definitely operational issues that crop up which make the first or second trips a little bumpy. They were still working out some EDI status event messages on boxes via SJ, as well as updating the system for billing and other problems, but those are being largely worked out. The trials were rushed a lot earlier than they expected (more below).

The Patras was a trial ship for Maersk much like how the Detroit Express was a trial ship for Hapag. The Patras sub'd in SJ in stead of Montreal as the call before Halifax, so those boxes mostly went out the CP routing. Their TA service from Maersk has slots for CMA and ONE, both of which had boxes on the last 907 yesterday (151 platforms of mostly doubles). Next up is the Livorno Express followed by the Genoa and Glasgow Express for Hapag, which per their schedule are now SJ bound ships on the MCA service. The MCA service has slots for Maersk as well as other THE Alliance members.

A lot of talk how this is temporary traffic due to the port strike in Montreal. That is not the case, this is traffic CP has been working on for some time before the strikes, but due to the PoM strike they ended up putting things into action a lot faster than they were anticipating. Hapag, and likely Maersk in this case, again have aging ships on these services built for the St. Lawrence Seaway that will be pulled out before 25 years of service (some are 22 years old at present time). The advantage with SJ is that you can take a ship up to 8500 TEUs now, and eventually upwards of 12,000 TEU. So in reality, you'll probably see the next iteration of vessels for these services double in size, then see another TA service go away or feed into this.

I'm told the plan is to have two dedicated outbound trains per week from SJ similar to Yesterday's 10K 907 and the port calls are going to be on Friday/Saturday for Hapag. Also, Irving is hiring crews and just resurfaced/repainted the auto compound.... so autoracks we'll be thrown into this mix in the next 2-3 weeks. Capacity is surely going to be squeezed, so CP and NBSR better find some operational improvements quickly, as the line is already starting to get bogged up.

Lastly someone on another thread mentioned the tides and tidal issues at Saint John. All I have to say is, I'm fairly certain that port, rail and steamship line investments that we current SEE happening would not if they were worried about this. So to the casual observer on the outside looking in it would seem to be a large issue, but in reality, things are happening at SJ so that must not be the case.
  by bostontrainguy
 
Yeah I would think that Montreal is going to see a serious down trend in sailings as these smaller ships get scrapped. Maybe not a good time to call a strike?
  by J.D. Lang
 
I'm following this thread and the two threads in the Pan Am forum with great amazement on the transformation of railroading in a great part of northern New England. Who ever thought that scenarios would start to play out like this. I can remember just after Lac Megantic that many said that the Moosehead sub was finished. I thought along those lines myself. With fortress taking over the MMA and bringing a decaying line back to life (and turning it over for a decent ROI) It's great to see that some Class I's are actually trying to grow their business after reading so many dismal stories of slash and burn in the name of PSR and the OR. Who could have ever predicted this. I guess that's why following this industry is so interesting.
  by CN9634
 
In the next year or two it'll almost feel as though the history from 1995 to 2020 basically never happened... how amazing indeed.
  by johnpbarlow
 
A bit OT but it's interesting that a 25 yr age is considered time for retirement for an ocean going container ship. There are a handful of 75 + yr old WWII era lakers plying the Great Lakes carrying bulk commodities such as Mississagi, Alpena, and Lee A Tregurtha. And there are many in their late 60s like Ojibway, Saginaw, and the Arthur M Andersen. Is a combination of salt water, rough water, and economics of small payload what puts these container ships out to pasture before they achieve middle age?
  by gpp111
 
So it would seem the port of Montreal is size limited for shipping, and as larger container ships replace smaller ones due to economics, the Port of Montreal will be left out in the cold? Are they not planning a container port at Quebec City, and if so, would that be able to handle larger ships?

I am so glad the Moosehead has been saved.....and rediscovered. Had the opportunity to ride with a few crews over it years ago.
  by Cosakita18
 
There's been a lot of discussion about Saint John as an alternative to Montreal, but to what extent could it be an alternative to the very congested port of New York? If a railroad could offer 36-40 hour transit times between SJ and NYC, via NBSR and the MEC, I could see Saint John growing to rival Halifax in size.

Slightly off topic but also worth mentioning that Eimskip has been doing a brisk trade in CMA-CGM feeder traffic from Portland to Halifax over the past few weeks because of the situation in Montreal. The past few Green Line sailings have been stuffed with CMA containers that would have normally gone through Montreal. I know from a friend at the Maine Port Authority that they have been working with Eimskip and CMA-CGM to make Portland a regular call on CMA's CAGEMA feeder service between the Caribbean and US Northeast.
  by gpp111
 
MEC is 10 MPH.
  by CN9634
 
Cosakita18 wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:37 am Slightly off topic but also worth mentioning that Eimskip has been doing a brisk trade in CMA-CGM feeder traffic from Portland to Halifax over the past few weeks because of the situation in Montreal. The past few Green Line sailings have been stuffed with CMA containers that would have normally gone through Montreal. I know from a friend at the Maine Port Authority that they have been working with Eimskip and CMA-CGM to make Portland a regular call on CMA's CAGEMA feeder service between the Caribbean and US Northeast.
That would be short lived. The CAGEMA right now uses ~1400TEU ships (twice the Eimskip ship sizes) which in theory should fit the berth at Portland (Thats about MAX) but CMA already doubled the ship sizes on that service a few years ago so once they fill those ships and need to go to larger vessels..... you're done. Don't put all the eggs into one basket, but CMA has been down to Portland a few times so it's on their radar. Portland is a great feeder port into larger ports, they should keep focusing on those 'marine highway' opportunities as a niche player.

SJ is on the world stage already, I've heard it mentioned several times the last week from several of the steamship lines as.... as alternative to Halifax and Montreal. Also besides the expansion, the biggest thing they got was DP World in there in 2017, thats a world class terminal operator and brings a lot of weight with them.
  by Cosakita18
 
CN9634 wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:57 pm
That would be short lived. The CAGEMA right now uses ~1400TEU ships (twice the Eimskip ship sizes) which in theory should fit the berth at Portland (Thats about MAX) but CMA already doubled the ship sizes on that service a few years ago so once they fill those ships and need to go to larger vessels..... you're done. Don't put all the eggs into one basket, but CMA has been down to Portland a few times so it's on their radar. Portland is a great feeder port into larger ports, they should keep focusing on those 'marine highway' opportunities as a niche player.
Interesting perspective. Based on what I've heard from my acquaintances in the Maine International Trade Center / Maine Port Authority, the folks in Reykjavik are eager to get some type of feeder traffic into the IMT, and CMA is the top contender given their existing partnership with Eimskip. Right now so much of the company's growth plans focus on the North America trade. There are plans in the works to make some minor upgrades to the pier at the IMT to handle Eimskip's new class of 2100 TEU ships (Which they do plan to put on the Green Line service in the future ) and create an effective loading area for ships up to 190 meters long.

But you are right. It will never be more than a small fry compared to Saint John or Halifax. However it still does have potential as an alternative to Montreal, especially if PAR's successor was willing to work with SLR on intermodal prospects.
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