Discussion relating to the past and present operations of CPR. Official web site can be found here: CPKCR.com. Includes Kansas City Southern. There is also a KCS sub-forum for prior operations: kansas-city-southern-and-affiliates-f153.html

Moderators: Komachi, Ken V

  by CPF66
Per a report on the Greenville cam, once again not 121 on a Wednesday/Thursday. I think they have yet to run one on one of those days every week this month.
  by NHV 669
120 was into Greenville Jct. at 13:06 with 8126, 18 mixed freight (7 loaded autoracks), 63 wells/134 containers, 3 empty wells, KCSM 4571 (DPU), 96 empty wells, 3 wells/6 containers.
  by CN9634
Well NBSR 121 never made it over the border last night so there's that reason. The only annulment recently have been by exception-- one day last week they didn't run because they *only* had 40 cars (intermodal didn't make it again). Curious that's starting to sound like an NBSR issue more than a CPKC one?
  by CN9634
Gilbert B Norman wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 6:54 pm Mr. CN, to what extent do you think the severe tides in the Bay of Fundy will have on the number of vessels that can berth and when they can call and sail from Saint John?

Halifax does not have any severe tidal conditions to my knowledge.

I would think that having two competitive railroads would be a reason for the maritime companies to prefer Saint John. Halifax has only one road - your handle!!

Be great to hear your thoughts; Mr. Cowford have you any to add?
As mentioned previously this is a non-issue. They dredge the new berth to accept neo-panamax ships and it's never once come up on a conference call as a tidal concern. So again, not a concern
  by NHV 669
And to add to that, the NYK ship (Delphinus) has already departed the port, and is exiting the Bay of Fundy, with the Barcelona Express already approaching the bay just SW of Yarmouth, NS.
  by CN9634
CPF66 wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2024 9:52 am
CN9634 wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 6:11 pm What you have to understand is that Saint John is the 25 year answer (mistake) to Halifax and ultimately Montreal. If you see the trajectory of CN at Halifax then you understand the potential that SJ has for CPKC. That isn't built overnight, but the interest is there and SJ can take big ships which gives it a lot of runway
I think my first attempt at making a reply didn't go through, so lets try it again.

I am starting to think Saint John might still be a massive mistake, but for different reasons. I get that the traffic doesn't materialize overnight, nor does the demand. I understand that. But at this point, we are going on 5 years (half a decade) since CP started marketing for it, and for the longest time they were going hard on it. But by this point, the expansion has been substantially complete for almost two years. Which yes, I get the red sea deal is an issue here. However interest seems to still be minimalistic at best, aside from the stop and drop Hapag does at Saint John, then Halifax, before going to Montreal.
As for the trajectory of Halifax, what exactly is that? Unless something has changed recently, I think CN is still only moving one dedicated intermodal train pair per day out of there. I think in comparison they are still running 2 mixed freight train pairs between Montreal and Moncton as well as the few trains of potash for SJ per week. Hardly anything groundbreaking.

Montreal still offers big advantages over SJ or Halifax since its an inland port, and I believe its similar in size to SJ. At least with the case of CPKC, they don't have the US Customs road block. The other big advantage is containers don't have to be interchanged with a Class 3. And at this point its safe to say that CSX, CPKC, or CN will never be getting trackage rights, just haulage. At this point, I think SJ could handle a niche role of accommodating high priority and time sensitive traffic, which I believe is what some of the current traffic is.

I get that the current intermodal market is a mess with the global issues. However, at this point they should have had some more bites aside from Hapag (And I think CMA if they still call there). But they haven't. And they have been at it for 4-5 years.
The Phase I SJ Port expansion work was completed in January of 2024 (this year) which is widely documented and factual.

CP continues to market SJ hard, however CP has also just created an entirely new network with a new portfolio of ports... so there is attention to the new network at large

Halifax has year over year broken records, but if you haven't noticed (which it doesn't seem you have), Halifax has added over the three years many new services including a few direct to India via the Suez. Right now that route has to go around Africa so its very much delayed and constrained (volume going via West Coast now), but thats a real thing that has been happening.

MSC has made Halifax their East Coast port of choice for entry and has taken an ownership stake in PSA at Halifax

CN has been running maxed out trains on 120/121 for well over 5 years, plus regular and extra 122/123s to Chicago, and Z120/Z121 extras as needed. On top of that they run a few more manifest trains (including autos).

CN is fishing around for a second Port to add onto the Atlantic which is well documented up in Nova Scotia.

So if CN is making this happen at Halifax with MSC, I wonder what the future is for SJ, which is now in Phase II expansion to 800K TEU capacity with all new surface equipment, more cranes, and now adding an Americold Facility in partnership with CPKC right at the port.

Sorry that all your near and dear favorite shortlines went the way of the doo-doo but the reality is the Class Is are here and putting real dollars behind real projects.

Canadian East Coast ports have cost advantages (no GST/harbor maint. costs but also USD vs CAD) but also are big ship ready, which makes them very attractive. MSC is locked up with CN at Halifax, so next for Saint John is a move by Maersk, COSCO, or Evergreen. Maersk/Hapag are getting married next year, but CMA is hedging between both SJ and Halifax depending on how much capacity. ONE is feeling out which one they prefer as well but leaning more Halifax at the moment. Baltimore will no doubt be a large impact specifically to Maersk/HSUD, and the DALI was a 10000 TEU Neopanamax ship, so not easy to replace that capacity at just any port. SJ can take up to 12,000 TEU ships whereas Halifax can take ULCVs.

Sources (better than perceptions):

https://tj.news/new-brunswick/andrew-ma ... of-halifax
https://www.porttechnology.org/news/por ... c-service/
https://www.sjport.com/news/port-saint- ... on-project
https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews ... f-halifax/
https://iaac-aeic.gc.ca/050/evaluations ... sable=true
  by Gilbert B Norman
OK, Messrs. CN, CP, and NHV; I will lay to rest any concerns I have had about the possible effect of tidal conditions upon calling and sailing times at Saint John, and accept that whenever a vessel is ready to call at or sail from the port, it can and will do so.

Oh and yes, I'm supposed to refer to these vessels as ships and in the feminine gender, but these is nothing emotional about those tubs with an engine. What counts is that an increasing number of them can handle 20K TEU's of containers, and that's what they're there for, and not to "look pretty" when under way.

Finally, where else on the Canadian East Coast might CN have in mind for a port that they can call their very own? Could it be St. John's where they would rebuild "The Newfie" to Standard Gauge and tunnel under the Strait :-D :-D
  by F74265A
Sydney NS and near port hawksbury NS have sites that have been promoting container port development in recent years
  by Gilbert B Norman
Interesting to learn, Mr. F7.

CP goes nowhere near Sydney, and for those Containers moving to destination by highway, the divided Trans Canada Highway is also there.
  by NHV 669
121 was into Greenville Jct. at 10:19 with 8138/KCSM 4074, 12 mixed freight, 76 wells/130 containers, KCS 4571 (DPU), 32 wells/66 containers, 59 mixed freight (5 autoracks).

120 was into Greenville Jct. at 14:22 with 9800/8783, 50 mixed freight (2 loaded autoracks), 40 wells/79 containers, 2 empty wells.
Last edited by NHV 669 on Sat Apr 27, 2024 6:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
  by F74265A
Gilbert B Norman wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2024 8:08 am Interesting to learn, Mr. F7.

CP goes nowhere near Sydney, and for those Containers moving to destination by highway, the divided Trans Canada Highway is also there.
Those would be cn served
Was responding to the proposition mentioned above that cn was looking to add a port on east coast in addition to Halifax
  by Gilbert B Norman
Mr. F7, when I stated "CP goes nowhere near Sydney", I was inferring that no way could CP seek access to the Port by petitioning the applicable regulatory agency to access the Port and make rates from or to such.
  by NHV 669
121 was into Greenville Jct. at 08:55 with 8783/9800, 102 wells/214 containers, 8126 (DPU), 83 wells/129 containers, 18 empty autoracks.
  by NHV 669
No 120 yesterday, or 121 this morning, so it was nice to see a change of pace on the next train.

120 was into Greenville Jct. at 11:52 with 8741/7022/NS 4297, 63 mixed freight (16 loaded autoracks), 2 empty wells, 57 wells/103 containers.

An old Grand Trunk rack, former Berlin Mills box BKTY 153461 (BMS 467), and a Transportación Ferroviaria Mexicana gon rounded out the nice surprises on this train.
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  by Gilbert B Norman
Associated Press reports that the m/v Balsa94 sailed from BALTIMORE this past Thursday and is expected to call at Saint John today.

The vessel sailed through the newly opened 10m(35') channel and is reported to be drawing 4.3 m (15') which would suggest it (sorry, but I'm "nonbinary" when it comes to these vessels) is hardly fully laden.

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