Interline Ticketing with Amtrak == STB Oversight

I meant to say something about this earlier. The Surface Transportation Board (STB) has ruled that since the proposed Texas Central HSR system will be offering interline ticketing with Amtrak, it becomes a part of the interstate passenger rail system subject to STB oversight even though it is only operating intrastate.
https://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2 ... al-project

This certainly would have implications for any potential collaboration between Amtrak and Brightline/Virgin in Florida. There the STB had already ruled that Brightline was exempt from its oversight since it was an intrastate passenger carrier.

I assume this would not affect any potential operations of Amtrak over the FEC's Jacksonville to Miami corridor as the FEC and Virgin are under two separate owners. It may affect the potential of operating into Miami Central should Amtrak wish to do that. It could cause issues if Amtrak wanted to operate over the dedicated Orlando-to-FEC Corridor trackage under construction. And it definitely would cause issues if Amtrak wanted to create interline ticketing with Brightline/Virgin, unless Brightline/Virgin is willing to take on the added burden of this type of regulatory oversight.

Talk about an unforced error. What were they going to interline with? The perpetually late and sporadic operating Sunset? Or just the frequently late Eagle?

Texas Central competes with Soutwest and VonLane, they should've stuck to their knitting and ignored Amtrak.

Tadman wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:02 am Talk about an unforced error. What were they going to interline with? The perpetually late and sporadic operating Sunset? Or just the frequently late Eagle?

Texas Central competes with Soutwest and VonLane, they should've stuck to their knitting and ignored Amtrak.

Federal funding was conditional on interline ticketing. This seems like something Texas Central could fight in court though.

mtuandrew wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:05 am

Tadman wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:02 am Talk about an unforced error. What were they going to interline with? The perpetually late and sporadic operating Sunset? Or just the frequently late Eagle?

Texas Central competes with Soutwest and VonLane, they should've stuck to their knitting and ignored Amtrak.

Federal funding was conditional on interline ticketing. This seems like something Texas Central could fight in court though.

The STB Order could be appealed by filing a Petition for Review with either the United States Court of Appeals for the DC Circuit or the 5th Circuit. That said, the US Circuit Courts generally afford great deference to administrative agencies such as the STB in interpreting the agencies' enabling statutes, so a reversal, while possible, may not be likely. A common standard of review by the Circuit Court is whether the administrative agency action was arbitrary, capricious, and/or not in accordance with law.

Ken W2KB wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:32 amThe STB Order could be appealed by filing a Petition for Review with either the United States Court of Appeals for the DC Circuit or the 5th Circuit. That said, the US Circuit Courts generally afford great deference to administrative agencies such as the STB in interpreting the agencies' enabling statutes, so a reversal, while possible, may not be likely. A common standard of review by the Circuit Court is whether the administrative agency action was arbitrary, capricious, and/or not in accordance with law.

Right, they’d have to overcome Chevron deference - that slipped my mind. Texas Central would need to prove... I guess, that the Federal government was arbitrary by requiring such oversight as a condition of its funding? Possibly that it’s against the spirit of the law to require such? Because the Feds haven’t been capricious and flip-flopped on the matter. Then again, it probably wouldn’t be worth the expense to fight when STB would most likely find some other way to be involved.

How much funding has been given to intrastate carriers? Seems that it wouldn't be applicable if you're not part of the national system.

Are they saying they are part of the National Network to get tax breaks, but want to be exempted from STB regulation? This is confusing.

If you take this argument to it's extreme, the MBTA shares stations with Amtrak, and their Orange Line connects two Amtrak stations. If they offered a shared ticket then the MBTA subway & trolley system would be regulated by the STB?

Amtrak services some airports including TF Green in Warwick, RI ("Providence Airport"). If they have an interline ticketing agreement with an airline, that airline would become "part of the national rail network" and subject to STB.

Neither applies, BandA. MBTA transit is regulated by the FTA and state/local government. TF Green already has STB oversight as an international airport

Maybe that’s the way - Texas Central could market itself as a very fast LRT line

BandA wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:40 am Are they saying they are part of the National Network to get tax breaks, but want to be exempted from STB regulation? This is confusing.

If you take this argument to it's extreme, the MBTA shares stations with Amtrak, and their Orange Line connects two Amtrak stations. If they offered a shared ticket then the MBTA subway & trolley system would be regulated by the STB?

Amtrak services some airports including TF Green in Warwick, RI ("Providence Airport"). If they have an interline ticketing agreement with an airline, that airline would become "part of the national rail network" and subject to STB.

I seem to remember back in the late 80's/early 90's when Amtrak was operating the Atlantic City line that some trains operated through to Philadelphia International Airport via the SEPTA connection. I'm pretty sure Amtrak had an interline ticketing agreement with some airline (Southwest?) for through ticketing to Atlantic City. The service only lasted for a short time before being cut back to 30th street. It's been done before.

RRD (and Everyone:)

Amtrak entered a partnership with the long-defunct Midway Airlines to offer connecting rail
service directly between Philadelphia International Airport and Atlantic City. Midway was in
the process of establishing a "hub" at PHL which began in November 1989. Only about one
year later Midway - which could not compete with the dominant PHL carrier US Air - sold its
hub operations to US Air and end all service to PHL in October-November 1990. Midway was
in financial trouble and would go bankrupt in March 1991 and than end all operations after
not finding a merger or takeover partner on November 13, 1991.

Atlantic City-PHL Airport trains began direct service June 1, 1990.
Three round trips operated daily. Schedules, ticketing and baggage
handling were coordinated between both carriers.

Midway Airlines "Observer" employee newsletter - June/July 1990
http://www.departedflights.com/MLobserver0690p1.html
See pages 2 and 3: Amtrak "Boardwalk Express" to Atlantic City

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midway_Ai ... 1976-1991)
Note the mention about the purchase and establishment of the PHL hub in June 1989

Amtrak Atlantic City-PHL Airport trains originated and terminated on
Track #2 at the Terminal C/D station on SEPTA's Airport Line.
For some years after the service ended small sand piles on the track
were visible where locomotives would lay over between runs.
Virtually all of SEPTA's Airport Line service uses MU cars -
it is a rarity for push-pull trains to run on the Airport Line.
In more recent years almost all SEPTA Airport Line trains
exclusively use Track #1 because of added terminal access meaning that
there is room to accommodate a new connecting rail service from NJT or
Amtrak at PHL should it be established in the future...

MACTRAXX

Regarding Ken W2KB's post of the 12th, another point is that the definition of interstate has been held to apply to the entire journey of the individual passenger, and an interline ticket would establish that. At one time the City of Chicago was prevented from regulating the Parmalee Company's operation as a city taxi service because all of its passengers were interstate, thus making Parmalee subject to regulation by the Interstate Commerce Commission, the predecessor of the STB.

ExCon90 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:28 pm The City of Chicago was prevented from regulating the Parmalee Company's operation as a city taxi service because all of its passengers were interstate.

But the City of Newark does not allow NYC TLC cabs for pickups at EWR, but allows NYC TLC to provide outbound dropoffs at EWR from city points. This could also be an issue of interstate commerce, though if PANYNJ is
involved, might not matter, as being an interstate compact agency established by Congress.

I think the difference there was that all of Parmalee's passengers were interstate by definition, because the only passengers they carried were on interstate tickets over a minimum distance to and from Chicago; i.e., a ticket reading from Springfield to Waukegan would not include a Parmalee coupon.