If you could restore a defunct Amtrak route

Would like to mention that the Illinois portion of the STL Metro Area is in excess of 700,000 people. Considering this, Illinois should have a bigger interest in this than some have previously thought.[/quote]

With the baseball season starting a lot of those could be Cardinal fans.

something I'd like to see is a rebuilt restored Amtrak sleeper & diner cars to be used on the private car specials. Amtrak to the Ky Derby. Amtrak to the Masters.

GWoodle wrote:something I'd like to see is a rebuilt restored Amtrak sleeper & diner cars to be used on the private car specials. Amtrak to the Ky Derby. Amtrak to the Masters.

That is charter material for Iowa Pacific all day long ..... no justification for Amtrak to be in that market whatsoever.

Restoring the Florida Special a seasonal service to Florida from New York operated exclusively in the winter is a far more interesting proposition. The train has never run during the Amtrak era and was last operated by the Seaboard Coast Line (SCL) in December of 1970 in the winter immediately prior to Amtrak's startup.

Good luck to Iowa Pacific (or do you mean Amtrak run it? same problem) getting a slot under the Hudson River, or across the Potomac.

Doubt restoring old sleepers and diners is the way to go for I.P. or Amtrak. Maybe talk to CAF while there's still time to get more Viewliner diners, sleepers, and bag cars? Then tack on to Brightline's coach order from Siemens. Sure, that'll work.

But it's a fresh idea to me, and I'm cool with it.

gokeefe wrote:

GWoodle wrote:something I'd like to see is a rebuilt restored Amtrak sleeper & diner cars to be used on the private car specials. Amtrak to the Ky Derby. Amtrak to the Masters.

That is charter material for Iowa Pacific all day long ..... no justification for Amtrak to be in that market whatsoever.

Restoring the Florida Special a seasonal service to Florida from New York operated exclusively in the winter is a far more interesting proposition. The train has never run during the Amtrak era and was last operated by the Seaboard Coast Line (SCL) in December of 1970 in the winter immediately prior to Amtrak's startup.

Amtrak did operate the Florida Special for the 1971-1972 season, and then operated downgraded seasonal trains (first the Vacationer, then the Miamian) through the 1974-1975 season. Equipment shortages (what else?) ended the practice, though with the Champion running you still had three regular New York-Florida trains through 1979.

Thank you for the clarification! Greatly appreciated ....

All the more reason to consider resumption of a service that would meet obvious travel demand.

A return of Chicago- Florida service could be possible with thru cars off the CONO put on the
"Gulf Coaster"(aka Sunset East) to Florida destinations,any reroute with CN and CSX as Host RR's
for a more direct route might become a lost cause under current conditions.

A CONO-Gulf Coaster train ride couldn't be done over with an overnight train, it would require two nights, and twice the rolling stock.
Just look at the times involved;
CONO - Chicago to New Orleans - around 19.5 hours.
Gulf coaster - New Orleans to Jacksonville - around 9.5 hours (reduced an hour due to Time Zone change)
Silver Meteor - Jacksonville to Orlando - around 3 hours
That totals 32 hours.
Sources of train schedules:
https://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/194/990/Am ... 16-006.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/444/137/Ci ... 011116.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/403/677/Si ... ev-rev.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Since the CONO departs Chicago at 8:05 pm CT, 32 hours places the train in Orlando at 4:30 am ET two days later. Additionally, the train will probably be idling an hour or two at the platform in New Orleans.

The overnight CONO will turn into a two night train. Where will the additional three Superliner train sets come from?

It's possible to run a day train between New Orleans and Orlando in 13 hours, using the potential soon to be available Horizon cars. A much better solution I believe.

Until there are some intermediate corridors established between Florida and Chicago in the Deep South and lower Midwest I don't think it will be possible for Amtrak to run a reasonable schedule between Chicago and Florida.

What was the most-widely-used routing for pre-Amtrak service from Chicago to Florida? PRR/NYC Chicago-Cincinnati, then Southern via Atlanta?

Just looked at the timetable for the City of Miami. You know, even though it misses Atlanta, a Birmingham-Jacksonville via Columbus routing would probably get decent ridership, given the presence of Fort Benning. Whether that's even possible given the track network of 2016, I don't know-- have no familiarity with the lay of the land in AL/GA.

If we're not just talking about Amtrak defunct routes, I'd throw in the Nancy Hanks. Part of any Floridian could be the old Nancy Hanks route via the old Central of Georgia: Wiki Nancy Hanks

The issue would be getting TO Atlanta from Chicago. Although I've lived near Atlanta, and now in Savannah (Statesboro), I'm not sure about any routing via Chattanooga. I suppose you could "turn left (east)" at Birmingham to get to Atlanta, but the desire for a restoration of the Gulf Breeze route might override that.

The Floridian followed the L&N I thought: Wiki Floridian. That's an interesting and useful route through Alabama and Georgia, covering interesting territory such as Dothan and Waycross, stations long lost to passenger rail.

Gilbert B Norman wrote:Near "the end" during 1979, Amtrak did "everything" to make a go of The Floridian. Circa 1977, when I rode it "bumper post to bumper post", It had an all Budd consist that was perfectly matched, two Domes, full service dining, and a separate Lounge,. What more could Amtrak do?

Very interesting. I had no idea Amtrak had gone to such lengths. I figured that the route had died in part from benign neglect like so many others.

electricron wrote:

Backshophoss wrote:A return of Chicago- Florida service could be possible with thru cars off the CONO put on the "Gulf Coaster" (aka Sunset East) . . .

A CONO-Gulf Coaster ride couldn't be done over with an overnight train, it would require two nights, and twice the rolling stock.

Yes, one night CHI-Memphis, one night in the Florida Panhandle.

Just look at the times involved:
CONO - Chicago to New Orleans - around 19.5 hours.
Gulf coaster - New Orleans to Jacksonville - around 9.5 hours (reduced an hour due to Time Zone change)
Silver Meteor - Jacksonville to Orlando - around 3 hours
That totals 32 hours.
. . .
Since the CONO departs Chicago at 8:05 pm CT, 32 hours places the train in Orlando at 4:30 am ET two days later.

Not exactly. The run would take longer, to provide more convenient stops along the way. First a pause in NOL, where some cars would be taken off, leaving a shorter consist.

With a new name (not CONO), leave NOL EB at 5 p.m., allowing a full business day for riders originating there (matched by a 6 a.m WB out of Mobile, 9:30 a.m. arrival in NOL).

Then it has what's apparently a lot of go-slow-on-purpose mileage overnight Mobile-Jacksonville, carefully jiggered so that each Panhandle town or city (Pensacola, Tallahassee) would get one daylight or evening stop, and then one during the night or predawn.

The EB arrival in Jacksonville is 8:15 a.m. (about 14 hours en route, not your 9.5) There it connects to the national system, kinda sorta. The NB Meteor leaves at 5 p.m., the Star at 11 p.m. So it's spend the day. If you're broke, it's a long day. If you have a few bucks, it's quite a nice stopover. Grab a taxi: a good, not-too-big art museum features semi-tropical gardens; see the zoo's notable display of jaguars ; ride the (not very successful) monorail; etc.

The now SB train ends up in Orlando at 11:30 a.m. Transfer to the Meteor at 1 o'clock, arrive Miami after 6.

Seems the schedule for the extended CONO works pretty well.

The overnight CONO will turn into a two night train. Where will the additional three Superliner train sets come from?

It's possible to run a day train between New Orleans and Orlando in 13 hours, using the potential soon to be available Horizon cars. A much better solution I believe.

Amtrak did an earlier study, 2009 (it's on Amtrak.com). The one thing everyone could agree on was, no extended Sunset, and no keeping the Sunset East's schedule. And Amtrak said it didn't have any equipment, so it would need $80 million for new stuff. So that was the end of that.

Now comes the December 2015 study. Everyone getting on board, literally, on the "Inspection Train" with the Governor and US Senator from Mississippi, along with the Congresscritters from Pensacola and Jacksonville. And this new report has a happy ending: Amtrak says it expects to have enuff equipment by the time this train could get going. (Presumably the Chargers and the bi-levels for CA n the Midwest would free up enuff stuff.) Oh, and extending the CONO is a very cheap option to operate, with three consists required, not four as for a stand-alone train.

You are right that Horizon equipment could have a place here.The report looked at a corridor train NOL-Mississippi's casino coast-Mobile, to use Horizon equipment. A morning train EB and late day WB would nicely compliment the CONO departures. But the operating loss for this shuttle would be more than for the CONO extension. Not happening any time soon.

Here's the link to the info. Page 21 has the timetable.
http://static1.squarespace.com/static/5 ... t+2015.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Interesting that Amtrak clearly seems to be preparing for some kind of service expansion related at least in part to the fact that their rolling stock pool is about to expand significantly.