Hypothesis: "Thanks, But No Thanks"

eolesen wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 6:34 pm [
Regardless if revenue is recognized at sale or usage, flown and un-flown revenue have to be tracked separately since unflown sales are a future liability until flown.

Unflown go on the liability side of financial reports. Persons who pay for fuuture anything by cash can be out of luck if a bankruptcy occurs. So I never pay cash for future purchases only by Credit card. Never never personel check.

Off topic any future work contracted for over about $500. Do not pay in advance for labor but use an escrow holding business usually a bank. Give progress payments. Also pay vendors myself for all materials to prevent mechanics liens. Had brother - in - law who got a lien of about $17,900 from lumber company.

The worse problem is gettting lien releases from every subcontractor saying they have been paid in full. Laborers --- just say a real mess.

West Point (Mr., Officer, Captain), let it be noted your wise practice of "never cash or equivalent" also includes Debit Cards and the prepaid cards sold by currency exchanges, as they are an "equivalent".

The worst of things is that cash equivalent cards are largely used by the "financially illiterate" - those who are "unbanked" (no account relationship with any commercial bank), those who have had difficulty with control of expending when possessing credit cards, and those with a default arising from bankruptcy.

Mr. Norman, let's not call everybody who prefers to be cash-only as financially illiterate. Some people prefer to have their spending habits remain private.

There's good reason for some to have a degree of distrust over how much information is shared by the banks and credit card issuers to government and law enforcement.

I know that as of a few years ago you couldn't even open a bank account without providing a social security number, which locks out millions who entered or remained in the country illegally.

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eolesen wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 8:23 am Mr. Norman, let's not call everybody who prefers to be cash-only as financially illiterate. Some people prefer to have their spending habits remain private.

There's good reason for some to have a degree of distrust over how much information is shared by the banks and credit card issuers to government and law enforcement.

I know that as of a few years ago you couldn't even open a bank account without providing a social security number, which locks out millions who entered or remained in the country illegally.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

The current political climate is such that even citizens residing in one state using a credit card to purchase travel are placed at risk of civil or legal action or other harassment for doing something completely legal in the state they travel to if a payment processor chooses to sell the fact of the transaction to others.

Norman: Thanks for clarifying my no cash equivalent. That was also my idea but you are completely correct.

OK, let's try to get this discussion back to railroad (and Amtrak) industry cash flow and revenue recognition.

First, addressing the period A-Day to November 71 when Amtrak started to assume cash collection and revenue accounting, this was really a "neutral" for the railroads. On A-Day, AAR Passenger Mandatory providing that the road selling the ticket gets the collection (more likely than not "green stuff" cash). This collection was then divided between the interline carriers. Roads such as "my MILW" did have an advantage when that Chi-SF ticket was bought and subsequently was divided between the UP, SP, and Pullman Co. Post A-Day such "division" continued.

However, what our discussion overlooks, is that under the Agreement, Amtrak was going to provide to the roads an advance payable by wire on the third day of each month. That advance was an estimate of their costs, i.e. everything on A-Day, less estimate of ticket sale and Dining Car collections. Point is that Amtrak actually enhanced the roads's cash flow with "it all up front" and paying people and buying gas later in the month.

I can recall first hand how Charlie Schiffer, MILW Treasurer at that time (a "regular guy" who did not expect a Trainee Auditor to "bow and scrape" unto his feet) remarking how that advance of about $1.2M showing up by wire on Monday May 3 "made for a happy day".

So as Amtrak assumed collection of receipts (cash, credit card), so went up the advance. As Amtrak assumed activities of running the trains (on-board service, maintenance of equipment, station employees), down went the advance. When during '83 (I was gone), Amtrak assumed Train and Engine employees, the advance comprised what it roundly is today - payment for access (piddly) and performance (also piddly).

All told, I have to think, it would have been a "neutral" with cash flow for operations, excluding entry fees, had it been "Thanks....".

Engineer Spike wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 1:22 am This discussion is interesting because there is so much to speculate about. One point which was not touched on was whether any state governments would have subsidized passenger service. Even now many Amtrak routes are subsidized. New York State and neighboring Vermont are two good examples. Even before Amtrak, and the 1970s bankruptcies, many states were subsidizing commuter service. A good example was the T paying B&M. I wouldn't be surprised if NYC got money from NYS.

I've read the book The Men Who Loved Trains. One part was McClellan's time organizing Amtrak. They decided to form a company to take over long distance passenger service. Let's just say that it might have worked to give the railroads a stipend to cover passenger costs. It may have worked like the way Amtrak and NYS paid D&H to operate passenger service semi independently. The same end result may have happened in the end. They probably would have pared things down to the routes which we have today.

On A day would be too soon to form any "Illinois rail" as a state agency to buy & fund passenger rail. A few states have a program for freight rail as a part of rural industrial developments. Metra came later as Rock Island & Milw bankruptcy. Yet you see efforts by rail groups to restore Peoria rail, Rockford rail, etc. Governments too involved with building highway intrastate projects to do passenger rail.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 6:04 am There were also operational concerns in that the ATS "shoes" would not clear into CUS. That was resolved by removing the shoes at Shopton (present FMD station) and operating X-Illinois @ 79mph.

Shopton is now the former FMD station. In 1968, prior to A Day, the ATSF consolidated its two Fort Madison stations to Shopton (abandoning downtown Fort Madison). BNSF wanted the parking spaces back in its yard and local and federal monies were combined to renovate and restore the Fort Madison downtown station. It reopened in December 2021.