Hurricane Sandy

Jtgshu wrote:Finally got power where im staying (but no internet, tethered from my phone) so I can now post.....and get on a soapbox

Lets take a step back here and get some facts straight

This storm was incredible. Once in a lifetime....once in several lifetimes. There aren't too many storms in a lifetime that take out entire towns in this area.....

The damage from the storm was/is indescribable. Ive seen it and dealt with it first hand. My house was damaged/flooded, but im one of the lucky ones in my neighborhood. Several of my neighbors houses are completely destroyed. They lost everything.

So for those of you who are so quick to jump on "why didn't they do this, why didn't they do that, what a bunch of morons, I would have done this...., etc" back off.

There is a very VERY comprehensive plan for dealing with hurricanes/storms. It worked very well last year during Hurricane Irene. Ive seen it and read it. It VERY detailed and covers LOTS of bases. And it should have worked.

and it would have worked if the storm wasn't for lack of a better word, insane....but you can bet your bottom dollar that the plan will be changed for all future storms and events.

And I have a feeling it was working until the unimaginable storm surge came through and took out everything.

How much are we going to prepare for "the next storm" - should we build every thing for a 500 year storm? How cost effective is that? There is a balance that needs to be struck, and this storm tipped the scale, the wrong way. Hoboken got flooded and the MMC got damn near destroyed.

Lets have a back up system! Lets use the old theatre.....in HOBOKEN! yea!!! great idea! Oh....wait a sec.....

Each interlocking can be controlled locally. A maintainer has to do it. They can and do it when things break. But would you rather have the workers sitting in a little hut allowing the trains to move slowly, or out on the railroad repairing the damage to get the railroad up and running properly?

NJTs actions prior to this storm were nothing like Septas during Irene and leaving the trains in Trenton so they could be flooded. The MMC was NOT expected to be flooded. Yes, its in a swamp, but its actually higher than you might think. But not quite high enough this go around.

For those who seem to think this was a "little worse" than a normal storm because you lost power for a little while and had a branch or two fall down, and that NJT should have been prepared for every possible situation/scenario, why dont you get in your cars and drive a little east and check out the Jersey Shore, or whats left - AC, LBI, Mantaloking, Bay Head, Sea Bright. Go check out the New Jersey Bayshore - Highlands, Leonardo, Port Monmouth, Union Beach, Keyport, go check out Staten Island, go check out the Rockaways or Breezy Point, go check out Long Island. And then go and donate cash or volunteer to help the millions of people affected by this. And get a grip on reality while you're at it.

Yes, im cranky, this touched a nerve in reading this thread. I lost a lot personally, but I have many other friends and CO WORKERS (that means Railroaders) that lost much more than I did. The fact that ANYTHING is running the past few days surprises me, and 60 percent of service starting tomorrow/Monday is simply amazing to me. Remember, when you talk about the railroad, you are also talking about the people who work on it, and a LARGE portion of the work force of NJT was negatively affected by this storm. Some more than others. These folks have to deal with other things right now besides work. Others are putting in 16 plus hours a day working on the track and ROW and signals. I know of a few of those fellas too. They are doing their absolute best to get the railroad back in one piece, literally.

Off soapbox, and I want to thank all those who have thought of and sent me messages over the past few days and all those emergency responders and volunteers and all those folks who are helping out, like for example the lady up the street who made a hot tray of ziti for my neighbors as we were simply walking in circles in shock over what happened, or the folks from the Southhampton (i think it was) fire department who dropped off a "care package" today, or the clean up volunteers who got off the school bus that dropped them off and they asked everything cleaning up if they needed help and offered snacks and coffee.

Simply saying "thank you" isn't enough. Countless numbers of these acts have gone on all over. The worst events bring out the best in people. But remember, its easy to help, just donate to the Red Cross, or local donation center or time to an area or people in need. Believe me when I say every little bit DOES help.

I'm very sorry to hear your area got some of the worst of the storm. I should tell you, that lot of us here with no real damage but power out for days felt very helpless about what happened in NJ and NY. We didn't even have full details because the cable largely went out monday night. i'm glad you are safe and you had some assistance. Do you remember the number of the fire battalion? We have a southampton fire company a few miles from here. I could deliver your thanks to them personally.

Thanks 25hz, Nah, I don't remember, im not even certain on the name of the town, I know it was South Somthingorother. I thought Hanover, but I couldn't find any online, but there was a Southampton (my aunt used to live near there), so maybe thats it. There was no info left with the package, and just what the person said when they dropped it off, and I don't remember. But the paper and plastic bag is from a Giant food store, and there aren't any of them around my neck of the woods, so it came from pretty far away

Jtgshu wrote:Thanks 25hz, Nah, I don't remember, im not even certain on the name of the town, I know it was South Somthingorother. I thought Hanover, but I couldn't find any online, but there was a Southampton (my aunt used to live near there), so maybe thats it. There was no info left with the package, and just what the person said when they dropped it off, and I don't remember. But the paper and plastic bag is from a Giant food store, and there aren't any of them around my neck of the woods, so it came from pretty far away

Over on my side of the river, Giant runs wild ... with two in 1.5 miles ...

A stop & shop customer looked far and wide for that same logo with a different name.

M&Eman wrote:Tell me how someone without an extra car to use in places like South Orange, Maplewood, Millburn, Summit, Chatham, Morristown etc. are supposed to get to work tomorrow?

The 70 bus is running. Community Coach is running. I don't know how crowded they are.

I'm in IT, and I saw the holes in my own strategies, but how much do you really plan for, and how much money do you have to spend? All things to consider. In the coming years, the rise of virtualized systems will probably allow for SCADA style systems that control vast, complex networks like train control, should allow for a much more distributed system to operate at a cost that is palatable. One can imagine being able to run the railroad remotely at one time in the future. However, these things still require power and communications networks to be up and running. I would imagine that NJT is of course rethinking strategies, and will probably implement lower cost solutions that might assist in situations like this. Things like separate wire sets that provide power and communications abilities coming from different areas to maximize the ability to have some systems up in such situations like this.

The control networks themselves are fairly resilient (not counting anything using a traditional pole line), making use of buried fiber, satellite or digital radio relay systems. They could even make use of public wireless and IP networks or some hybrid of the two, although security would begin to become a problem there. The problems are where you need to put an butt in a seat because in addition to all the standard features of an office space, you also need the increasingly important back end servers that handle the train management and any automatic route setting as well as whatever specialty interface hardware translates the code line into video games. This is not the end of the world to of having to recover from, even if the building burns down unless you don't have any backup copies of the software that runs the system stored anywhere else.

Simply running a geographically separated backup location will solve the vast majority of outage situations assuming that the second location is chosen properly. However will only protect against a problem with the primary dispatch facility. If do not wish to be vulnerable to a general communications disruption then you need to take it down another step and have track-side facilities in numerous locations plugged directly into the code line. In that case each dispatching territory would have a wayside control facility with a hard link to the "last mile" communications line so to speak. It would not be technically difficult to place emergency control workstations in crew bases and stations all over the system. Actually tying to get workers to those places in an emergency or meeting other regulatory requirements is another matter entirely.

Due to overcrowding, #NJCL service is temp suspended & Woodbridge customers should utilize Metropark for service to/from Newark & NY 5 Nov 2012 7:09a

Well, so much for that. I know HEP and MU door signals fade out after 10-12 cars, but is there any way to use multiple locos to run longer trains on the NEC? Because that's about the only solution I see left to running adequate service. Well, that or Tokyo-style platform pushers from Rahway east.

CComMack wrote:Due to overcrowding, #NJCL service is temp suspended & Woodbridge customers should utilize Metropark for service to/from Newark & NY 5 Nov 2012 7:09a

Well, so much for that. I know HEP and MU door signals fade out after 10-12 cars, but is there any way to use multiple locos to run longer trains on the NEC? Because that's about the only solution I see left to running adequate service. Well, that or Tokyo-style platform pushers from Rahway east.

In reading that, it seems to me that the problem is at Metropark and the trains that are supposed to go to Woodbridge are being diverted to Metropark to ease overcrowding there

Jtgshu wrote:Thanks 25hz, Nah, I don't remember, im not even certain on the name of the town, I know it was South Somthingorother. I thought Hanover, but I couldn't find any online, but there was a Southampton (my aunt used to live near there), so maybe thats it. There was no info left with the package, and just what the person said when they dropped it off, and I don't remember. But the paper and plastic bag is from a Giant food store, and there aren't any of them around my neck of the woods, so it came from pretty far away

Well, putting 2 and 2 together, only the one giant was open around here on a CNG generator on the other side of town, literally everything else was dark, it was the only thing lit for miles, and there are no giant branded stores in NJ. A few of the fire companies in bucks did indeed take collections and go to stores themselves to gather some things for all the affected folks along the NJ coast. I know a bunch of the folks who work that station and the one in newtown, so i'll ask around.

Again i'm glad you're OK and someone was able to help out a tiny bit with a donation kit. I do food deliveries for 4th of july, xmas, thanksgiving, and a few other times a year here. Adding knowing how much organization it takes to do those deliveries to how far away it is especially through areas with damage & no power... it really is amazing what folks will do to help those in need, even if it is something small it can make a huge difference.

Summary of Service for MONDAY,November 5:

Northeast Corridor: service operates Trenton-NYP on a modified weekend schedule. No Princeton Shuttle.
North Jersey Coast Line: [service suspended due to overcrowding] Operates Woodbridge, Rahway, then all stops to NYP.
Raritan Valley Line: Service operates on a modified schedule
Atlantic City Line: Service operates on a normal weekday schedule
Morris & Essex Line: service remains suspended due to significant damage to overhead wires, especially between Summit and Milburn & Denville and Morristown.
Montclair/Booton Line: Service remains suspended due to significant overhead wire damage, especially on the Montclair Branch.
Main/Port Jervis Lines: train service operates on a limited, peak-direction service. 8 trains SEC-Suffern, 4 trains SEC-Port Jervis (each way)
Bergen Co./Pascack Valley Lines: service remains suspended to do lots of local power outages hindering signal and grade crossing operations.

Atlantic City Line: Service operates on a normal weekday schedule

Which I assume means that Governor Christie cancelled all service resulting in a normal weekday schedule consisting of no trains :p

Seriously tho good news to see that the ACL wasn't seriously damaged even if AC was.

Rode the 7:37 from Hamilton this morning to NYP. Train was more crowded than usual at Hamilton - by Princeton, standing in the aisles. By Newark, packed like a subway train.
We were held for a while outside of the South tube to allow WB trains to exit. All-in-all, two hours from Hamilton to NYP. Crowds at NYP were also very heavy, as an outpouring of inbound trains overwhelmed the platforms.

I give NJT credit for having what they do in service. It can't be easy to restore anything considering the regional conditions.

I read on a Facebook group that I'm a member of that there is at least one charter bus working as a "gypsy bus" in the M&E area. Both Lakeland and Community Coach (DeCamp too I imagine) are currently overwhelmed with ridership so I'm guessing that these "gypsy buses" may be out there for some time. I believe Community is running a regular schedule, however Lakeland is running a bare bones (Sunday) schedule.

So it turns out that ferry service has been restored to Hoboken and PATH service should be back there by the end of the week. It would be a HUGE black eye for NJT if both of those services were brought back and NJT still couldn't get there. I'm sure they were hit just as hard, if not harder than NJT ever was.

And you know this how? Seriously? Have you seen what the state looks like?!?

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-1 ... to-replace

The Newark-based agency had 23 percent of its rail cars and 35 percent of its engines damaged or ruined by Atlantic superstorm Sandy, Nancy Snyder, a spokeswoman, said. The agency hasn’t determined how many, if any, can be repaired, she said.

...

Replacing rail cars isn’t as easy as borrowing whatever can be found. Rolling stock is often custom-made to accommodate a particular system’s tracks and signals. Parts of New Jersey Transit's system run on electric power; diesel engines are required on others.

...

The U.S. Federal Transit Administration is speaking with transit agencies in other parts of the country to line up rail cars, buses and other equipment that may be available, said Meghan Keck, a spokeswoman for the Transportation Department, which includes the FTA.

The regulator will coordinate loans of rolling stock and technical experts to New York metropolitan area agencies if needed, she said.

Amtrak, the U.S. intercity passenger railroad, is negotiating with Via Rail Canada Inc. for extra equipment to boost service in New Jersey, Chief Executive Officer Joseph Boardman said Nov. 1.

Via Rail has contacted Amtrak “to offer its support,” Mylene Belanger, a spokeswoman for Canada’s national passenger train company, said in a telephone interview. It’s too early to give details on the possible outcome of the discussions, she said, declining to comment on whether Via Rail is also talking to New Jersey Transit.

...

Its rail operations center was flooded, ruining the computers that control the movement of trains and their power supply, as well as the backup power and the emergency generator. Downed trees brought down overhead wires on track powered by electricity.