Hurricane Helene

Whatever happened to "Center To Center All Weather Service" (NY,NH,&H) or "Your Trip Is Weatherproof"(D,L,&W)?:

https://www.amtrak.com/alert/modified-s ... lenbn.html

This is not the northeastern US, it’s Florida. Not the same. I can assure you the NYNY&H didn’t run through the great hurricane of 1938, and the DL&W didn’t run through Hurricane Diane in 1955.

Here in Fla-la-Land (actually, anywhere where a hurricane decides to meander), when a region is forecasted to experience tropical storm force winds, the railroads determine a time at which they cease train movement and begin to remove or tie down grade crossing gates. Once that happens, no trains will operate until the storm has passed and the crossing protection is restored to normal operation.

This is why Amtrak suspended south of JAX, and SunRail suspended all operations today. It’s a totally different beast than anything the DL&W or NYNH&H routinely dealt with.

Erie-Lackawanna wrote:I can assure you the NYNY&H didn’t run through the great hurricane of 1938

It did to at least some extent. The Bostonian derailed on the causeway in Stonington when it hit debris on the tracks and was then struck by waves. And while the train was being evacuated a passenger fell into the rough waters and drowned; a crew member jumped in to rescue, but he also drowned.


If it’s a Category 4 storm like Helene, I wouldn’t chance running any trains in the at risk area if I was in charge of things. The pros don’t come close to outweighing the cons in this case.

The NYNH&H would probably have shut down if they'd known the hurricane of 38 was coming.

Erie-Lackawanna wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2024 7:30 pm This is not the northeastern US, it’s Florida. Not the same. I can assure you the NYNY&H didn’t run through the great hurricane of 1938, and the DL&W didn’t run through Hurricane Diane in 1955.

No, Mr. Friendly Service Route, the New Haven did shut down on August 31, 1954, I can tell you first hand, such was the case when Cat 3 Carol passed through Stonington CT.

This 13yo kid was there aboard a 36' boat in Stonington Harbor. However, by 10A Sep 1 - the following day, a Westbound passenger train passed through. Nevermind that several boats that broke.their moorings were beached obstructing the rails (I think more than one reader here is familiar with Stonington), the crews got them off the ROW to enable the noted train to pass through.

Makes me wonder if a Cat 3 were to pass through Stonington today, under Amtrak’s management, how long would that track be shut down?

I suspect you might see some CSX and NS closures. There's flooding in the Carolinas already, and it's been raining pretty much all day from east of I-65 and south of the Ohio River pretty much all the way to the coast due to the outer rain bands of the storm.

I've been sitting above the NS Rathole at MP248 in Nemo, TN all week, and the train horns seem to have gone silent at some point this afternoon.

Everyone: Shutting down rail operations in the path of Helene - Florida and Georgia for starters - is the right
thing to do in this situation having a general idea of the damage that the winds and extreme rain can cause...

With the comparison to the September 1938 "Long Island Express" Hurricane if the LIRR and NYNH&H had
more forecast information actions could have been taken to be more proactive to the approach of the storm...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1938_New_ ... _hurricane

If a Category Three Hurricane made a direct hit on either Long Island or the Connecticut Shoreline today it
would be far more then only rail lines that would be affected...The wind and rain would cause widespread
power outages as example that may be measured in weeks of restoration...The Storm Surge would have a
potential to cause catastrophic damage to shore areas in its path - the vulnerable development on both of
Long Island's and Connecticut's coastlines - which were heavily damaged in 1938 - could be devastated...

The potential widespread problems that can be caused by a major hurricane can not be ignored...MACTRAXX

The CSX A&WP sub going south out of Atlanta has been silent since sunset. There are already some pine trees down around here. Suspect that CSX has some on these tracks as well. The ROW has not been cleared in years and it is like a tunnel for trains that go thru here. You see broken limbs along the tracks which appear to be knocked off by passing IM trains

One thing to realize is that many people are quick to call their lawyers these days for whatever reason.

I have not seen anything official on rail damage in NC yet, but based on photos I have seen from the NC mountains I would bet:

• NS from Newport TN to Asheville along the French Broad is likely to be completely gone

• NS from Asheville (and the Biltmore yard) to Black Mountain has been underwater, but the Swananoa is fairly low volume so the track is perhaps intact.

Given the light traffic West of Asheville, I would be very surprised to see NS rebuild any of it. NCDOT may step in East of Asheville given their passenger rail interest (which is misplaced in the eyes of this foamer, the run will never be fast enough to serve anyone but rail-positive tourists)

• CSX from Marion to Erwin has undoubtedly seen multiple washouts. I have not heard anything from the Spruce Pine area but both Erwin and Boone (not on the line but nearby) have both suffered substantial damage (the hospital in Erwin was underwater)

• The mostly lowland ex-Clinchfield from Bostic towards Spartanburg has likely seen a substantial amount of bridge damage (it is possible the Lake Lure dam has failed and flooding along that slope has been severe regardless of the status of the dam -- the village of Chimney Rock appears to have been wiped away by the water)

The common theme to all four of these segments is they were all either in, or very near, mothball status. While all of these areas have seen floods like this before, current traffic levels might be the thing to bring an end to railroading in the NC Blue Ridge. The storm has also undoubtedly increased the degree of difficulty for Salisbury-Asheville passenger service.

Based on other damage reports I doubt any rail east of Morgantown has seen any significant damage.

As to alternate routes, I-40 has washed out at the TN-NC stateline (it is normally closed due to rock slides every couple of years, this is the first flood-related closure in my memory). I-40 in Asheville (near the 74 interchange) was a river earlier today as well.

Heard my first train horn around 4pm today on the Rathole. Did some driving around Oak Ridge, and while the creeks are high and the Emory is running pretty full, it looks like we didn't get it nearly as bad as they did 100 miles east of us.

The situation in NC is just devastating.

west point wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2024 12:28 am The CSX A&WP sub going south out of Atlanta has been silent since sunset. There are already some pine trees down around here. Suspect that CSX has some on these tracks as well. The ROW has not been cleared in years and it is like a tunnel for trains that go thru here. You see broken limbs along the tracks which appear to be knocked off by passing IM trains

First southbound on A&WP was a very long IM train at 1730 at LaGrange today Friday. No more trains yet as of 2300hr.

We need to wait for damage assessments before any conclusions.
Do not count out yet NS service to Ashville. First a geology primer. The rock formations from NE of Boone - east of Marion - east of Hendersonville and south into SC are shale. Mostly west that goes almost to the Tennessee border. What is worse the shale does not lie flat but sits at various angles. What happens when shale gets wet it become slick. Then any heavy rain combined with just a little pressure you have landslides.
The last time I-40 was closed it took NC 8 months to reopen it at about 20 miles west of Canton. Traffic especially trucks were able to use I-26 to I-81 north of Johnson City but reports around Erwin and that route may not be available especially over Sam's Gap.

US-25 that follows the SOU RR rout from Ashville thru Newport Tn from my driving is much worse than the NS line. Now Newport is a big question mark right now.
I-40 closed east of Ashville. I-26 closed south of Ashville. NC DOT says all roads are closed in western NC as of 2300 .
Now depending on how quickly repairs can be made it may be NS can get its tracks back in service first. Unlikely but if that happens it will mean an immediate rush to put freight onto NS.

Along term shut down of some of the routes might bring on some kind of rail passenger service. Yes unlikely but let us reserve any statements until damage assessments are complete.

Per Trains' Newswire artic le as of 6:55 pm Eastern:

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews ... railroads/

CSX said this afternoon (Sept. 27) that it is currently assessing damage from the storm as it tracks across the Appalachians.
“CSX team members have been successfully clearing tracks, inspecting signals and crossings, installing generators, and making repairs where necessary in affected areas,” the railroad said in a service alert. CSX is warning of service delays in the following areas:
— The Kingsport and Blue Ridge subdivisions between Kingsport, Tenn., and western North Carolina.
— The Manchester and Fitzgerald subdivisions between Jacksonville, Fla., Waycross, Ga., and mid-Georgia.
— The Bow Line between Waygross, Ga., and Thomasville, Ga., and Dothan, Ala.
— The Clearwater Subdivision between Tampa and Clearwater, Fla.
— The Palmetto Subdivision between Tampa and Bradenton, Fla.
— The A-Line between Florence, S.C., and Jacksonville, Fla.

Photos taken this evenings at CSX’s Clinchfield Railroad bridge crossing the Nolichucky River at Unaka Springs, Tenn., show water splashing against the steel girder bridge with large amounts of debris across the right-of-way. The approximate 680-foot bridge is located at Chestoa, at approximately Milepost Z 140.0 on the Blue Ridge Subdivision, and is part of CSX’s network connecting Russell, Ky., with Charlotte, N.C., and Spartanburg, S.C. Trains News Wire is awaiting word from CSX on the full extent of damages to its Clinchfield route.
As of this evening, Norfolk Southern confirms rail service is restricted across many rail lines as crews access damages and make repairs as receding waters allow. Affected routes include:— Americus, Ga., to Albany, Ga., on the Albany District.
— Jacksonville, Fla., to Macon, Ga., on the Valdosta and Macon districts.
— Macon to Savannah and Augusta, Ga., on the Savannah and Augusta districts.
— Macon to Brunswick, Ga., on the Brunswick District.
— Atlanta to Charlotte on the Greenville and Charlotte districts.
— Knoxville to Bristol, Tenn., on the Bristol Line.
— Bristol, Tenn., to Roanoke, Va., on the Pulaski and Christiansburg districts.
— Roanoke to Bluefield, W.Va., on the Christiansburg and Whitethorne districts.
— Bluefield to Williamson, W.Va., on the Pocahontas District.
— Asheville, N.C., to Hickory, N.C., on the S-Line.

15-hour delay: https://www.live5news.com/2024/09/27/am ... ne-damage/

Amtrak passengers stuck on train over 15 hours from Helene damage

JASPER COUNTY, S.C. (WCSC) - Dozens of passengers were stuck on an Amtrak train for over 15 hours in Jasper County as Helene’s winds brought trees down, blocking the train tracks.

Amtrak train #98 was stuck in Ridgeland, S.C. on the tracks near West Frontage Road and Taylor Mill Road.

The train’s route begins in Miami, FL and ends in New York, NY with many stops along the way. One passenger, Brandi Phillips, got on the train at a Savannah, GA station around 10 p.m. Thursday.

Around an hour later, the train suddenly stopped.

“We were told we had to stop because there was a tree that was in the train tracks and we couldn’t move. They (Amtrak) had sent us a mass text saying that crew members would be here in 60 minutes to get everything cleared away, and we would be back and rolling,” Phillips said. “60 minutes turned into 15 hours.”
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