Hurricane Helene

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2024 8:38 pm No, Mr. Friendly Service Route, the New Haven did shut down on August 31, 1954, I can tell you first hand, such was the case when Cat 3 Carol passed through Stonington CT.

Such events may not have been uncommon over there.

Legend goes that some scientist or engineer on his way to Groton to a meeting on the progress / issues of a new kind of ocean going vessel, was delayed due to an upside down boat on the tracks. Or maybe that was the New Haven's "Wrong kind of snow"?

In any case, he pointed this event out at the meeting, and commented if anyone had thought about such situations with the design of the vessel being discussed.

Apparently they were more concerned with what the industry referred to euphemistically as "loss of coolant", than being upside down.

Granted, loss of coolant has not been a problem with the land-based offspring of the vessel's propulsion design, save for one time in Pennsylvania back in the 70s...

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Sat Sep 28, 2024 8:17 am 15-hour delay: https://www.live5news.com/2024/09/27/am ... ne-damage/

Amtrak passengers stuck on train over 15 hours from Helene damage

JASPER COUNTY, S.C. (WCSC) - Dozens of passengers were stuck on an Amtrak train for over 15 hours in Jasper County as Helene’s winds brought trees down, blocking the train tracks.

Amtrak train #98 was stuck in Ridgeland, S.C. on the tracks near West Frontage Road and Taylor Mill Road.

The train’s route begins in Miami, FL and ends in New York, NY with many stops along the way. One passenger, Brandi Phillips, got on the train at a Savannah, GA station around 10 p.m. Thursday.

Around an hour later, the train suddenly stopped.

“We were told we had to stop because there was a tree that was in the train tracks and we couldn’t move. They (Amtrak) had sent us a mass text saying that crew members would be here in 60 minutes to get everything cleared away, and we would be back and rolling,” Phillips said. “60 minutes turned into 15 hours.”
...

I'm with the passenger. If they couldn't get a crew to clear the track in 60 minutes, they should of had buses on the way. The only other thing I would think of is to have chainsaws et al in the baggage car.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Sat Sep 28, 2024 5:40 pm .The only other thing I would think of is to have chainsaws et al in the baggage car.

What could go wrong? https://amtrakoig.gov/sites/default/fil ... -Web_0.pdf

I can well imagine they wouldn't have been able to a get a bus close to the train if they couldn't first clear the tracks to get the train to a crossing, and that's assuming the roads were not also blocked by fallen trees. Having driven W. Frontage road earlier this year, the drainage trenches in that area have standing water even on a clear day, and the area is mostly swamp, so "near" does not mean safe walking away from the train.

STrRedWolf wrote:

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Sat Sep 28, 2024 8:17 am 15-hour delay: https://www.live5news.com/2024/09/27/am ... ne-damage/

Amtrak passengers stuck on train over 15 hours from Helene damage

JASPER COUNTY, S.C. (WCSC) - Dozens of passengers were stuck on an Amtrak train for over 15 hours in Jasper County as Helene’s winds brought trees down, blocking the train tracks.

Amtrak train #98 was stuck in Ridgeland, S.C. on the tracks near West Frontage Road and Taylor Mill Road.

The train’s route begins in Miami, FL and ends in New York, NY with many stops along the way. One passenger, Brandi Phillips, got on the train at a Savannah, GA station around 10 p.m. Thursday.

Around an hour later, the train suddenly stopped.

“We were told we had to stop because there was a tree that was in the train tracks and we couldn’t move. They (Amtrak) had sent us a mass text saying that crew members would be here in 60 minutes to get everything cleared away, and we would be back and rolling,” Phillips said. “60 minutes turned into 15 hours.”
...

I'm with the passenger. If they couldn't get a crew to clear the track in 60 minutes, they should of had buses on the way. The only other thing I would think of is to have chainsaws et al in the baggage car.

RW - First question: Did these passengers have any clue that this was the aftermath of a major hurricane?
Second: Did CSX - owner of the route - fully share accurately with Amtrak how severe track damage was?
Third: R.W. had a general idea on how the area access to bring in any rescue vehicles was - in this
instance #98's passengers were SAFE and SOUND on board the stranded train for 15 hours...

https://weather.gov/chs/HurricaneHelene2024
Note the rainfall totals which were higher near Savannah, GA then further north in the Charleston, SC area...
This Amtrak #98 incident was the result of rain and wind from Hurricane Helene...Could holding the train in
Savannah (as example) pending track inspection northward towards Charleston by CSX been a better move?
This was a no-win situation for both Amtrak and CSX...MACTRAXX

Dang if you shutdown trains, dang if you run them and then have a prolong wait for tracks to clear. Just can not win with the press anymore.

ADMIN NOTE

Do not be flippant about Hurricane Helene. It has KILLED PEOPLE, DESTROYED HOMES AND WORKPLACES, CAUSED DAMS TO FAIL with consequent 1000 year floods as the water moves downriver, washed away interstate highways and other roads, isolated cities, and destroyed railroad tracks and roadbeds.

Should the Class 1 railroads declared force MAJEURE and shut down the east coast Thursday morning? Probably. Now we have trains out on the road, dead on the law, which may take days to rescue. Let’s not forget Asheville, N.C. is cut off from road transportation!

Please think before hitting the POST button.

Thank you.

Just so you realize the water dumped inland, this is Six Flags Over Georgia on 27 September…

Please do not jump to conclusions. Maybe left last station with no reported trees on tracks. Then tree(s) fell across track. Then tree fell behind train. You do not back a passenger car next to even a single tree. In fact backing a passenger car over route at night or even day with very restricted visibility not a good idea. If raining hard what would be visibility?? Buses called but roads impassable both directions for what ever reason. Or bus driver(s) may have said no way I certainly would have until storm passed. Worry about liability, Not saying this is what happened but certainly might have happened.

GBN - This topic should not only be re-named - it needs to be moved out of the Amtrak Forum to be Global...
The widespread damage caused by Hurricane Helene have turned out to be far more than one instance of
an Amtrak train (#85) being stranded temporarily enroute which is basically a trivial inconvenience matter...

I will second Col. Perkowski with the mention of the serious problems that Hurricane Helene has caused
throughout the Southeast which has affected much more than just numerous rail routes...

In some instances the National Weather Service will retire names for the most notorious storms...
The name "Helene" has unfortunately now earned this dubious distinction...MACTRAXX

Nasadowsk wrote: ↑Sat Sep 28, 2024 6:27 pm

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Sat Sep 28, 2024 5:40 pm .The only other thing I would think of is to have chainsaws et al in the baggage car.

What could go wrong? https://amtrakoig.gov/sites/default/fil ... -Web_0.pdf

Of course, this would happen. The idea (if properly implemented and with proper controls in place) still stands.

In this specific instance:

• Not being prepared for this is the main fault. CSX and Amtrak should have a weather office (like UPS has) to guide operations. So far, we don't know if they have them.
• We don't know if CSX had dropped a restrict or an advisory on the crew due to the weather. At the very least we know the train noticed the tree down, and stopped the train before a grade crossing (was in the video report).
• The train was very lucky that it was stopped before a grade crossing.
• Not getting support crews out there ASAP was bad on CSX and Amtrak's part.
• Not getting more communications out there was bad on CSX and Amtrak's part.
• Having Customer Service play the "blame the customer" game was even worse for Amtrak's part.
• Degrading train conditions under their control was even worse.

Let me refine my earlier statement: If they couldn't clear it in 60 minutes, they should of gotten buses out there and evac'ed the train at the nearest grade crossing as conditions warranted. Yes, you keep them safe and dry but you serve proper food and you keep the train running. If things were going to degrade that badly and your company knew about it, you should of truncated the train!

For the storm in general, it speaks for itself and all Amtrak and the train companies can do is deal with the aftermath, learn from what happened, and refine procedures. Whenever or not they actually do learn from this and refine policies and procedures is what we need to judge them on.

CSX and Amtrak need a weather office.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Sun Sep 29, 2024 7:32 am When I originated this topic, Helene was just barely named and was a Tropical Storm over the Gulf. At the time it looked like a "someone sneezed; shut down Amtrak" situation.

This time the "abundance of caution" was proven to be the best choice. The year is 2024, not 1938 where railroads apparently could kill an acceptable number of passengers.

I spent the week in Chattanooga and headed north back toward Chicago on Friday morning. Constant rain all the way through Georgia, Tennessee, Kentucky and most of Indiana until well north of Indianapolis. I considered returning home through Knoxville instead of Nashville but apparently chose the better route. The rain bands from Helene were massive and the only way they became less massive was emptying their load.

I am disappointed when I see Amtrak or other services shut down but a storm like Helene reminds me that it is GOOD to be cautious.

By the looks of the hurricane, this looks to be an order of magnitude worse than Agnes which set some of the records that Helene has broken.

For North Carolina and for the US, I don't think we have even begun to grasp the scope of how bad this is. All most all communications are either still down or overloaded, entire towns are washed out, all interstates are damaged. Multiple dams have been structurally compromised. It looks like the only way supplies are going to move into the region is by Chinook at this rate.

I just hope this isn't the future

My sympathy to the affected areas.
While our cyclones are different to your hurricanes, the out come is the same. My goto weather forecaster describes these warmer water events as like a atmospheric river, pouring down . This appears to be on a bigger scale again.