How to bring passenger trains to Portsmouth

Big assumption: the Granite State will spend money to do so

The State could contract with the T to run trains thru Haverhill to Rockingham Jct., then onto the Portsmouth Branch. It's only 10 miles long.

Rush hour service only to start. Pay the T for some equipment. Upgrade the track and crossings for 50 MPH running; no signals necessary. Form Ds will do.

Stations on the branch at Stratham and Greenland. Exeter picks up service, and it's a 10 mile drive to Dover from the junction, where another station platform could be built.

Run express from Lawrence. Oh, I forgot, they're doing some single track work there, aren't they? Nothing like looking backwards to the future.

Isn't fantasy wonderful?!

Rockingham Racer wrote: Upgrade the track and crossings for 50 MPH running; no signals necessary. Form Ds will do.

That will never happen because the FRA is trying to eliminate "Dark Territory" as much as they can.

Can you please explain what "Dark Territory" is?

Thanks

"Dark territory" is trackage without any form of automatic signaling, which in spite of abandonments still comprises the greater part of the North American rail network.

But, as Mr. Racer suggests, you won't see passenger trains back in Portsmouth (or Manchester either) unless New Hampshire kicks in some serious money. The MBTA won't operate out-of-state services unless they're subsidized (note that Rhode Island contributes for the Providence trains), which as a Massachusetts taxpayer I certainly appreciate. There could be commuter trains in southern New Hampshire in a year or two if the state wants to pick up the tab. But alas, I wouldn't hold my breath on that.

If you want service to Portsmouth, a lot will have to be done. The closest MBTA line to Portsmouth is the Newburyport Line, the last stop. The row north of there assuming if there is anything will have to be fixed. I know there is a rr bridge that goes across the Merrimack around there. MBTA wants to go across the border into Nashua and hopefully to Manchester.

That's why I put out the alternative route. The bridge will be very expensive to fix; the ROW thru Salisbury, Hampton, etc. is lousier than the Portsmouth Branch ROW.

This alternative seems much less expensive.

CSX Conductor wrote:That will never happen because the FRA is trying to eliminate "Dark Territory" as much as they can.

I understand the FRA and the DOT are concerned about dark territory; and I think they're initiating new procedures to help reduce accidents in said territory. I don't think, however, these new rules and procedures preclude initiating a new passenger service in unsignalled territorities. Of course, the optimum is having signals, but in this case, it's a straight run from Portsmouth to Newfields. There are no sidings and very few switches, AFAIK. And leaving these open is the bugaboo that's causing all the accidents--and therefore--the new rules right?

Switches are not the only problem with Dark Territory. For example the latest head-on collision in Virginia last month involving 2 CSXT freights. There was miscommunication in the issuing of the Form D, actually, EC-1. Had the line been signalled, as the two trains got closer to each other's blocks, the signals would begin to drop, resulting in the crews being alerted of a potential problem, and possibly contact the dispatcher and preventing such a horrible occurence.

CSX: I see your point. Down here, I'm on an unsignalled sub, and the dispatchers and train crews really have to be on their toes. Because of congestion, trains are sometimes parked on the main line. Following trains,therefore, are given authority to operate only as far as MP [x]. Can be tricky operating like that. And some track warrants (as they're called here) have four boxes checked.

So to finish my fantasy: put signals on the Portsmouth Branch. A couple of million more for New Hampshire to spend!! LOL

I don't think it's that far-fetched. They just have to pry open the NH treasury once, see the improvements resulting, and more could come- possibly with a local match around development, like Nashua is trying to do.
If they can do it for the Downeaster fifth train this year and people start riding it, things would look better for Portsmouth service, with a stop in Newfields. The folks in Portsmouth would probably be better off trying to get a Downeaster branch rather than MBTA service;
it would be better quality (less stops, more comfortable) and could be funded from federal $$. The
T doesn't have the kind of money to extend that far up, and NHDOT won't come up withit on their own either.

Good luck. A lot of NH pols and big-wigs seem to be completely oblivious to the fact that the Downeaster even exists. They talk about bringing passenger trains to Manchester as if it would be the first time passenger trains have operated in NH.

Serving Portsmouth via the Rock is an interesting idea.

The P branch used to have passenger service.

The problems that would need to be overcome include the interruption to Guilfords operation. The branch going right into the controlled siding, that would have to be changed so that trains going on and off the branch could go directly onto the mainline.

The other issue that would be brought up is a lack of capacity on the Lawrence to Reading section of the Western Route. It's single tracked from CPF-AS down to just south of Reading station. Granted, many trains go over the cat to the NH Division but you still have single track down to WJ.

Can they handle the additional trains? All freight goes via that single track down to LJ or in the case of DOBO and LOSA via the cat and then into Boston.

The Portsmouth Branch is an interesting line, it's downhill, very noticably, from the Rock until you reach the former swing bridge at the bottom of the hill, then it's a fairly steep upgrade as you climb. You go through some ritzy neighborhoods, cross over route 33 at grade, then head towards Emery where you go onto the Eastern Route. There used to be two tracks going into Portsmouth. The P branch and the Eastern Route, now there is a switch at Emery.

I think they should just declare the Merrimack a non-navigable river, close the bridge at Newburyport, weld it shut, and rebuild the track north to Portsmouth. Boaters have the entire ocean, they don't need the river too.

Well, probably not very many. I would guess no more than two trains in the morning, (maybe only one for starters), maybe one up and back in the middle of the day and two coming back in the evening. Is that too many? If you add that to MBTA service, it might be
a problem, but I think it could be solved if the Wildcat branch was upgraded. There is certainly room at North Station for one or two more trains if need be.

It would be cheaper to double track only down to the Cat and then trains would have two ways to get to Boston so it will be similar to doubletracking.

I know from listening to the scanner and hearing the detector go off every few minutes during commuting times the single track is very busy.

I understand that when G took over one of the first things they did was to remove the double track from Frye down to LJ and maybe even further down as far as Reading.

Do you have a time estimate as to how long a trip to Boston from Portsmouth would be?

Of course that will depend on how many stops. Assuming an express trip, I wonder how long it would take.

Exeter, where it already has a passenger station would definately want in on any Portsmouth commuter rail. Plaistow wanted commuter rail in the past but G nixed the idea because it would interfere with it's operations. I can see there point, they frequently park trains on the number two track in Plaistow to wait for a westbound train that takes the number one.

There appears to be room on the MA/NH line for a parking lot behind some building near the current team track in Atkinson. The station would literally be right on the line. It would also be very close to the former Atkinson station that burned and the freight house that has collapsed.

This interesting thought just occurred to me. There are currently only two railroad bridges in use crossing the Merrimack River. The Haverhill Bradford bridge and the bridge in Goffstown/Manchester for the NH division.

The Eastern Route bridge isn't in use and the former WN&P bridge was removed over 60 years ago.

I was told in another thread that they still run small amounts of freight over the bridge in lawrence. Thats not going to get you to Portsmouth though, even with a billion dollars in track reconstruction.