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  • How the UK was stripped of rail in the '60's.

  • Discussion about railroad topics everywhere outside of Canada and the United States.
Discussion about railroad topics everywhere outside of Canada and the United States.

Moderators: Komachi, David Benton

 #1402829  by george matthews
 
I would point out that the heading of this thread is misleading - not to say mendacious. Railways were not stripped in Britain but are flourishing. Some - even most - rural branch lines and duplicated mainlines were closed - and some of them could have been retained - but compared to many countries there is still an extensive network. Moreover some new fast lines have been built and more are planned. Extensive electrification has come and continues.

Compare with the US where the prevailing thinking about economics has led to the almost complete disappearance of passenger rail, or indeed with France which also closed a large part of its former network.
 #1402948  by David Benton
 
I have walked a lot of the abandoned railways in England , and most would not be viable today. The main exceptions I can think of is the moorhead tunnel route in yorkshire, and the inland bypass of the Dawlish coast.
Here in New Zealand, the abandoned routes in the South Island are almost all to ghost towns. They were built because the early settlers envisioned population density similar to England. By Contrast , maybe 1/2 the north island abandoned lines are to sizeable( by NZ standards)cities , or traffic generators, and really show a lack of long term planning.
 #1402956  by george matthews
 
I think the Moorehead Tunnel may yet see a use. (Once I saw the old line in action. My father and I walked in the area to view the new tunnel being built alongside. The line was in the process of being electrified - at 1500 volts DC - and we saw trains hauled by diesel going through the old tunnel. They changed locomotives when they reached the wired section.) There are proposals in the area which might send a High Speed route through the new tunnel - if it is in fact suitable. The Dawlish by-pass is often proposed but it never happens. The towns beyond it are not really big enough to justify a new route in present conditions. I do have hopes for an inland route. But I insist that Britain was not "stripped" of rail. The current network is busy and in fact over-used, which is why there are several proposals for faster new lines.

In the 1950s I had travelled on a train on the now abandoned North Cornwall line with my bike. A few years ago I visited the abandoned route by driving there. The site of the abandoned track is still there, next to a wind farm - which was a novelty when first erected. There is no case at all for reopening it at present - though like many lines energy policies to combat carbon dioxide emissions may yet make a new case for installing an electric line. There's a lot of talk about zero emission cars but zero emission railways need no new technology. One of the best arguments for more railways will be the need for zero emission transport.
 #1403010  by David Benton
 
1'm somewhat baffled by how people think driverless cars will help reduce congestion.
Zero emission cars , only zero emissions at the car , unless the electricity comes from renewable energy. I guess there may be public pressure to turn abandoned railways over to driverless cars. On the other hands , driverless technology may make light rail passenger and freight viable on country routes, including abandoned lines.
With todays tunnel boring machines , it may well be cheapr to bore new tunnels, than renovate enlarge the likes of the moorhead tunnels.
 #1403011  by george matthews
 
I am not sure what has happened to the Moorehead tunnels. I think at least one of them has been used for a high voltage National Grid line. I suspect it is the new tunnel. In which case reactivating it for rail use will need removal of the high voltage cable. Almost certainly the old tunnel is unusable for anything.
 #1403494  by Hymek
 
george matthews wrote:The Dawlish by-pass is often proposed but it never happens. The towns beyond it are not really big enough to justify a new route in present conditions.
There are many towns beyond Dawlish which although small to medium sized lack basic infrastructure, from rail and road to internet. There are also two cities; Plymouth (250k pop) and Truro. Plymouth in particular has a huge strategic importance and Cornwall still has important mineral reserves. The Torbay conurbation has a population of around 200k.

There is no motorway standard road beyond Exeter. There is no airport at Plymouth.

So the question isn't really being able to "justify" a new route, but to explain why nothing has been done to restore an alternative Exeter/Plymouth route.

It's madness that rail travel east from Plymouth is dependent on there not being a high tidal surge at Dawlish.
 #1403610  by David Benton
 
Belated welcome to the worldwide forum , Hymek. I missed picking up in the rail map thread you were a new poster.
I presume your screen name is named after the Hymek diesel , or British Rail 35 class. It was a name that stuck in my memory from a childhood growing up with Hornby OO trains.

A link for the curious.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_35" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 #1403634  by george matthews
 
Hymek wrote:
george matthews wrote:The Dawlish by-pass is often proposed but it never happens. The towns beyond it are not really big enough to justify a new route in present conditions.
There are many towns beyond Dawlish which although small to medium sized lack basic infrastructure, from rail and road to internet. There are also two cities; Plymouth (250k pop) and Truro. Plymouth in particular has a huge strategic importance and Cornwall still has important mineral reserves. The Torbay conurbation has a population of around 200k.

There is no motorway standard road beyond Exeter. There is no airport at Plymouth.

So the question isn't really being able to "justify" a new route, but to explain why nothing has been done to restore an alternative Exeter/Plymouth route.

It's madness that rail travel east from Plymouth is dependent on there not being a high tidal surge at Dawlish.
To build a new route would take a large sum of money. You don't get that without making a strong case to justify it to the investor, whether government or other.
Last edited by george matthews on Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
 #1403759  by george matthews
 
philipmartin wrote:
ExCon90 wrote:Passenger rail and freight rail are two different worlds in the US; freight traffic is a big success (since removal of Government rate regulation)...
Obviously government can have a lot to do with private enterprises failing, taxation being one obvious way. But I wouldn't agree about rail freight being such a big success in the US. See Fred Frailey's article in Trains Magazine on the subject. http://cs.trains.com/trn/b/fred-frailey ... -ward.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The conditions in Britain, and the influences on transport policy, are very different from those in the US. The political system is not at all the same.