How busy was the Southern Tier in the 1970s?

Off topic, I suppose, but some historical perspective please: Back "in the day", say 40 years ago or so, how busy was this line?

Good Start would be John Liles' webpage of Erie Employee Timetables:

http://www.jon-n-bevliles.net/RAILROAD/ ... _etts.html

Look for the Delaware Division.

I strongly recommend that you not start poking around the rest of John's railroad pages unless you have a few days to spend -- for starters!

http://www.jon-n-bevliles.net/RAILROAD/index.html

ut-1 wrote:Off topic, I suppose, but some historical perspective please: Back "in the day", say 40 years ago or so, how busy was this line?

If your post begins with the words, "Off topic," it's probably a good idea to start a new thread. I'm also going to move this thread to the Erie Lacakwanna Forum, since they were the operators of the line during the time period of your interest. That way, both forums can participate in the discussion.

-otto-

I can't be too specific right now because I don't have the hard evidence in front of me, but I'd say between 1967-1972 there were about 10-15 freights that ran between Croxton and Binghamton on the Southern Tier. After that the EL started downgrading the line and I think they single tracked sections of the main in 1973(?). Between 1973-1976 EL diverted most of the NY Division through freight traffic via the Boonton Line(NY&GL) and Scranton. So right before EL there were probably around 3-5 freights only.

I can try to get more specific if you would like, with train symbols tonight..

I grew up in Owego some 22 miles west of Binghamton in the '60s and early '70s. I would estimate there were ~ 20ish daily EL freights across the Tier back then. Plus between Owego and Binghamton there were a pair of daily D&H and LV transfer turns. I'll have to consult my July '70 EL employee timetable to see how many scheduled freights there were. Although the track was in tough shape (lots of derailments), EL did try to run a dependable scheduled operation. I wish I had a digital camera back then!

Otto: Point well taken & thanks for "re-threading" my question! Although I figured that freight-frequency on the Tier had to be much greater in the not-so-distant-past, it is too bad that it's now a shell of its former self. Thanks all for your replies.

johnpbarlow wrote: EL did try to run a dependable scheduled operation.

Dependable enough to secure UPS intermodal contracts!

An article by WIlliam D. Burt in the Erie Lackawanna Historical Society newsletter, shows a total of nine eastbound and ten westbound symbol freights running either via the "River Line" or the old Main Line west of Hornell in 1971. The River Line was the freight cutoff running from Cuba Jct. to River Jct. The majority of these would have run on a daily, or almost-daily basis. I believe most, or probably all, of them would have also run East of Hornell. In addition there would have been the Buffalo trains, local freights, and other extras, including some fairly regular coal traffic.

One could reasonably assume over twenty trains per day in the early 70s, confirming Mr. Barlow's recollection.

JR

Somewhere I saw info printed indicating about 26 daily moves in Binghamton in the early-mid '70s. Maybe on the EL email list, it's been some time though. Maybe even in Railpace, because I think it noted the decrease in activity since then for comparison.

Graduated from high school in Owego, NY and my parents lived there into the early 1970s. The twenty or so freights a day in the 1970s is about correct. The transfer runs mentioned were Lehigh Valley FO-2 and OF-1 Sayre-Binghamton-Sayre. On the Delaware & Hudson side the trains were FO-3 and OF-4. Binghamton-Sayre-Binghamton. About the hottest train going west was the Advance Croxton-99, a TOFC/COFC train.

lvrr325 wrote:Somewhere I saw info printed indicating about 26 daily moves in Binghamton in the early-mid '70s.

I recall looking up this very statistic about 10 years ago. I recall the 26 Through Freights daily originating/terminating/ run through Binghamton sounds about right. I know my count was at least 24 ... Through Freights only. Not including yard jobs, Road Switchers, transfers, "Ordinaries", or extras.

johnpbarlow wrote:I grew up in Owego some 22 miles west of Binghamton in the '60s and early '70s. I would estimate there were ~ 20ish daily EL freights across the Tier back then. Plus between Owego and Binghamton there were a pair of daily D&H and LV transfer turns. I'll have to consult my July '70 EL employee timetable to see how many scheduled freights there were. Although the track was in tough shape (lots of derailments), EL did try to run a dependable scheduled operation. I wish I had a digital camera back then!

I may have underestimated train EL train frequency on the Tier. Here's what the April 1971 (not July '70!) EL NY Division employee timetable says re: scheduled freights across the Tier:

Daily Scheduled Eastbound freights:
1.) NYCB (except Monday): Huntington, IN to Croxton via PJ
2.) NE-74: Chicago to Croxton via PJ
3.) BA-100: Gang Mills to Binghamton
4.) A/TC-2: Buffalo to Scranton
5.) TC-2: Buffalo to Croxton via PJ
6.) DN-90: Buffalo to Croxton via PJ
7.) AP-2: Buffalo to Croxton via PJ
8.) TCS-4: Buffalo to Scranton
9.) A/TC-4: Buffalo to Binghamton
10.) PN-98: Chicago to Croxton via Scranton
11.) MF-74: Marion to Croxton via PJ
12.) ECE: Huntington to Croxton via PJ
13.) PB-100: Chicago to Binghamton
14.) RI-100: Chicago to Croxton via PJ
15.) SFE-100: Chicago to Croxton via PJ
16.) TC-100: Chicago to Binghamton
17.) NY-100: Chicago to Croxton via PJ
18.) 2-NY-100: Chicago to Croxton via PJ (except Sunday & Monday)

Daily Scheduled Westbound freights:
1.) TC-3: PJ to Buffalo
2.) NY-97: Croxton to Chicago via PJ
3.) NE-97: Maybrook to Chicago
4.) SB-3: Scranton to Buffalo
5.) TC-1: PJ to Buffalo
6.) TC-99: Binghamton to Chicago
7.) A/NY-99: Croxton to Binghamton via PJ
8.) AP-1: Croxton to Buffalo via PJ (except Saturday & Sunday)
9.) SLCB: Croxton to Huntington via PJ (except Sunday)
10.) NY-99: Croxton to Chicago via PJ (except Sunday)
11.) SC-99: Scranton to Chicago
12.) PB-99: Binghamton to Chicago
13.) NE-99: Maybrook to Chicago (except Monday)
14.) CX-99: Croxton to Chicago via PJ (except Sunday & Monday)

There must have wb extras operated to balance power, cars, and crews. IIRC, on weekends EL would use Geeps, U34Cs, RS-3s, and other commuter region engines to drain NJ yards of empties. Also at the top of the Eastbound schedule page is found this text:

“Your attention is directed to the following freight schedules. The operation of these trains as shown will result in the production of a marketable transportation product which is essential to attract new business and to retain existing traffic. This is the purpose for which the railroad exists. All of our efforts must be in the direction of accomplishing this purpose.”

Great post, Mr Barlow!

I grew up along the Boonton Line after EL shifted their traffic from Port over to the Scranton side. 1974-1977 was an exciting time along the Boonton Line...

I also recall visiting relatives in Tuxedo, NY, across the street from the Tier. I can remember seeing 3-6 trains over 4-5 hours on a Sunday afternoon immediately after Conrail shifted the traffic back to the Tier. In 1978, Little Falls, NJ died and Tuxedo came alive...

Short answer was "plenty busy."

And of course in the '60s it was even more so--Binghamton had a few locals that ran service between the factories, mostly for E-J. Clark Street (Endicott) was a busy yard.

Interestingly enough, I have March, 2005 issue of Trains, which had an article about about the EL... including a map showing symbol freights in 1973. Between Corning and Binghamton, there were 13 Westbounds and 10 Eastbounds- for a total of 23 symbol freights. That's a big drop from the 32 symbol freights in the '71 timetable... so I guess the flood of '72, the stagflation economy, bankruptcy and Route 17 were really taking a bite out of EL's traffic flow.