Hoosac Tunnel Discussion & News

I'll agree with that.

and it appears I am the "dumby" who can't spell, lol.

Niether can I.....Lol.....

Probably not a big priority at present. Is it even possible to modify it to allow double stacks? Is this something NS could do?

NRGeep wrote:Probably not a big priority at present. Is it even possible to modify it to allow double stacks? Is this something NS could do?

Engineering study is fully funded and ongoing, with construction funding sources mobilizing at the state level. PAS is definitely front-loading that as a maximum priority. It is probably the most important thing in the world from the NS half of the partnership after finishing up the 286K mainline upgrades scheduled to wrap by year's end. And now that the CSX double-stack job has wrapped this is the next-highest priority in the Mass. State Freight & Rail plan. Once the engineering is done we'll probably see this one start to mobilize fast.

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:

NRGeep wrote:Probably not a big priority at present. Is it even possible to modify it to allow double stacks? Is this something NS could do?

Engineering study is fully funded and ongoing, with construction funding sources mobilizing at the state level. PAS is definitely front-loading that as a maximum priority. It is probably the most important thing in the world from the NS half of the partnership after finishing up the 286K mainline upgrades scheduled to wrap by year's end. And now that the CSX double-stack job has wrapped this is the next-highest priority in the Mass. State Freight & Rail plan. Once the engineering is done we'll probably see this one start to mobilize fast.

I certainly hope they aren't front-loading anything involving containers, especially doublestacks! (Intermodal humor anyone?)

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:

NRGeep wrote:Probably not a big priority at present. Is it even possible to modify it to allow double stacks? Is this something NS could do?

Engineering study is fully funded and ongoing, with construction funding sources mobilizing at the state level. PAS is definitely front-loading that as a maximum priority. It is probably the most important thing in the world from the NS half of the partnership after finishing up the 286K mainline upgrades scheduled to wrap by year's end. And now that the CSX double-stack job has wrapped this is the next-highest priority in the Mass. State Freight & Rail plan. Once the engineering is done we'll probably see this one start to mobilize fast.

When completed will this reduce or increase congestion on PAR/Patriot Corridor?

NRGeep wrote:

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:

NRGeep wrote:Probably not a big priority at present. Is it even possible to modify it to allow double stacks? Is this something NS could do?

Engineering study is fully funded and ongoing, with construction funding sources mobilizing at the state level. PAS is definitely front-loading that as a maximum priority. It is probably the most important thing in the world from the NS half of the partnership after finishing up the 286K mainline upgrades scheduled to wrap by year's end. And now that the CSX double-stack job has wrapped this is the next-highest priority in the Mass. State Freight & Rail plan. Once the engineering is done we'll probably see this one start to mobilize fast.

When completed will this reduce or increase congestion on PAR/Patriot Corridor?

It reduces congestion on CSX, but they have had 315K weight since the Conrail era, Class 3 speeds since before the Conrail era, a lot more intermodal business to begin with, and fewer online customers on the west-of-Westborough main necessitating fewer locals. So the reduction in trains that came with stacking was a lot more dramatic for them, and with their intermodal growth being evolutionary (but healthy!) it'll take a longer time to refill that cup. And also lopping off Beacon Park and doing some trimming in MBTA territory has consolidated a ton of locals that used to be whizzing all around Eastern MA. PAS isn't comparable because they were stuck at 263K for the longest time, stuck at even lower Hoosac clearances that couldn't take a full-size autorack for the longest time, have more online customers to serve, more branchlines with online customers to serve, and are starting near the beginning of the growth curve for serious intermodal revenue. For them it's likely going to mean traffic spikes up.

At least, that's what NS is banking on. They wouldn't have touched Ayer with a 10-mile pole if a majority of the benefit was just ops efficiency. More ops efficiency on very mediocre business still means you've got a big problem to solve of mediocre business. They want big business. And soon.

NRGeep wrote:Probably not a big priority at present. Is it even possible to modify it to allow double stacks? Is this something NS could do?

The tunnel can already handle double-stacks. It just can't handle double-stacked hi-cube containers (which domestic traffic is).

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:

NRGeep wrote:

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:

NRGeep wrote:Probably not a big priority at present. Is it even possible to modify it to allow double stacks? Is this something NS could do?

Engineering study is fully funded and ongoing, with construction funding sources mobilizing at the state level. PAS is definitely front-loading that as a maximum priority. It is probably the most important thing in the world from the NS half of the partnership after finishing up the 286K mainline upgrades scheduled to wrap by year's end. And now that the CSX double-stack job has wrapped this is the next-highest priority in the Mass. State Freight & Rail plan. Once the engineering is done we'll probably see this one start to mobilize fast.

When completed will this reduce or increase congestion on PAR/Patriot Corridor?

It reduces congestion on CSX, but they have had 315K weight since the Conrail era, Class 3 speeds since before the Conrail era, a lot more intermodal business to begin with, and fewer online customers on the west-of-Westborough main necessitating fewer locals. So the reduction in trains that came with stacking was a lot more dramatic for them, and with their intermodal growth being evolutionary (but healthy!) it'll take a longer time to refill that cup. And also lopping off Beacon Park and doing some trimming in MBTA territory has consolidated a ton of locals that used to be whizzing all around Eastern MA. PAS isn't comparable because they were stuck at 263K for the longest time, stuck at even lower Hoosac clearances that couldn't take a full-size autorack for the longest time, have more online customers to serve, more branchlines with online customers to serve, and are starting near the beginning of the growth curve for serious intermodal revenue. For them it's likely going to mean traffic spikes up.

At least, that's what NS is banking on. They wouldn't have touched Ayer with a 10-mile pole if a majority of the benefit was just ops efficiency. More ops efficiency on very mediocre business still means you've got a big problem to solve of mediocre business. They want big business. And soon.

The B&A is mostly Class IV track, not Class 3, and with few speed restrictions - very tough to contend with even with a straighter route.

newpylong wrote:

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:At least, that's what NS is banking on. They wouldn't have touched Ayer with a 10-mile pole if a majority of the benefit was just ops efficiency. More ops efficiency on very mediocre business still means you've got a big problem to solve of mediocre business. They want big business. And soon.

The B&A is mostly Class IV track, not Class 3, and with few speed restrictions - very tough to contend with even with a straighter route.

Domestic stack is growing for all carriers, but, when it comes to CSX vs NS into New England, clearing the Hoosac IS about improving efficiency....because that lowers costs allowing for greater market penetration and better financial performance which in turn allows for a greater ability to justify capital expansion moving forward. But, not only is CSX faster and more reliable on the B&A, it is faster with greater capacity beyond New England vs. NS giving CSX a competitive advantage for service-sensitive traffic.

While certainly operations is quite important to deliver the service, I think a lot of you are forgetting the ultimate factor here -- the dollar sign. If NS has a better value or offers cheaper rates, they are going to turn more heads. And while with constrained infrastructure they may not have the current service ability, improvements such as double stack may allow them to. And adding an additional train is one of the goals to service a different midwest connection, namely Kansas City. Wait for more companies to move manufacturing from China back to Mexico and watch the loads start to roll in.

At the end of the day, cash is king, even if it means an extra day or more on a service. If you build up the supply line, it doesn't matter if you're moving trains in 10 days or 5, as long as the product is arriving when the customer wants it there (only exceptions are probably time sensitive services like DHL, UPS & Fedex).

NS will also look to extend in the Crescent Corridor north to Mechanicville and Ayer in the future.

Is NS planning on routing any auto traffic from the south (eg, Alabama, S Carolina, Mexico) to Ayer/Davisville in the future? Need to get those Spartanburg-built Beemers to the Boston market....

They're going to have some serious operational challenges if they want to add carloads to Ayer. The obvious is lack of pad space - but that can be overcome by adding track and concrete. The second and more difficult issue is slots to get in and out of the Hill Yard during the day. There have been talks of triple tracking through Ayer utilizing the Camp, South tracks and new tracks - this is going to be necessary if they want to add more trains as they already tie things up quite a bit.

FWIW - NS is bullsh*t at the transit time on the PAS system lately.