Hitler's kriegslok

Here's the Wiki article on the BR52s. One was preserved at the Nene Valley Railway in Peterborough, England, but has been sold to Patrimoine Ferroviaire et Tourisme, a museum collection in Belgium and has left Wansford MPD.[3] Since 2013, it has been cosmetically restored as Belgian class 26.102
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRB_Class_52" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am old enough to remember being bombed by Hitler's servants. I don't wish to read about his horrible machines.

george matthews wrote:I don't wish to read about his horrible machines.

Nonsense; the BR52s are not "horrible" machines but quite good locomotives. Last out shopped in 1950, a few are still working today.

philipmartin wrote:

george matthews wrote:I don't wish to read about his horrible machines.

Nonsense; the BR52s are not "horrible" machines but quite good locomotives. Last out shopped in 1950, a few are still working today.

I think our biggest problem by now is the increasing amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. I am not in favour of burning coal, oil or natural gas. Moreover, having been a target of Hitler's activities I have no wish to see him even mentioned here.

george matthews wrote:

philipmartin wrote:

george matthews wrote:I don't wish to read about his horrible machines.

Nonsense; the BR52s are not "horrible" machines but quite good locomotives. Last out shopped in 1950a, a few are still working today.

I think our biggest problem by now is the increasing amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. I am not in favour of burning coal, oil or natural gas. Moreover, having been a target of Hitler's activities I have no wish to see him even mentioned here.

Let's try to keep It on the topic, (have I got nerve,) Hitler's kriegslok. Top: a type 42, the 52's bigger brother;
Middle: a BR52;
Bottom: a Polski Ty2- same as a type 52. Good looking engines, but I wouldn't give the Polish one the white glove test.

BR 52 fan trips. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OByoTNLvQGM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here's a video of a model of a BR42 which looks good to me. I also posted it on the Toy Trains forum.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_pu4Dz0Jao" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here's a photo of a rebuilt Br42 in Trier. Berthold Werner.

I appreciate that you are obsessed with steam engines, but they have no place whatsoever in a modern rail system. No doubt a few specimen locos don't have much influence on the carbon dioxide content of the air but they should be cut up to prevent future use.

George, while I think we probably all agree with you that carbon-based fuels need to be phased out for normal purposes, whether that be railways, power stations, cars or whatever, I think you're being a bit extreme with regard to historical artefacts. Working museums are very popular as a way of explaining the past by giving people a taste of it in action. Beamish Museum is a good example, or the Crofton Beam Engine, and there are quite a lot of heritage railway operations which give a similar service. By your strict standards none of these would be able to operate. Neither would the London to Brighton vintage car rally, nor the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight, both of which use old-fashioned technology which is not as clean as modern cars or planes, nor any number of other heritage events which are less than a drop in the ocean compared to the millions of petrol- and diesel-driven cars and lorries which pollute our atmosphere every day, to say nothing of modern planes, factories and power stations. I support you in trying to change those to clean renewable energy, but not in trying to suppress heritage operations, whether railway or other parts of our industrial heritage.

george matthews wrote:I appreciate that you are obsessed with steam engines,

You noticed my obsession, did you, George? it's hard to hide. I need help. Every time I look at
these kriegsloks, I fall again. These railfan forums are an occasion of sin, for me.
Here's a video of Czech steam working. Seeing it sends me into spasms of (immoral) joy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbyzKj6NfMw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

philipmartin wrote:

george matthews wrote:I appreciate that you are obsessed with steam engines,

You noticed my obsession, did you, George? it's hard to hide. I need help. Every time I look at
these kriegsloks, I fall again. These railfan forums are an occasion of sin, for me.
Here's a video of Czech steam working. Seeing it sends me into spasms of (immoral) joy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbyzKj6NfMw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We need a very drastic conversion away from Carbon dioxide emitting processes - and that obviously must include road transport which is by far the main source. To take up the transport slack we shall need a great increase in electrified railways, and probably urban transport such as trams and trolleybuses. I suspect the suppression of oil driven engines will be painful, and I don't know how it will be achieved.

johnthefireman wrote:George, while I think we probably all agree with you that carbon-based fuels need to be phased out for normal purposes

Please don't include me in that consensus, John. It's my understanding that the scientific evidence for that has been faked.

johnthefireman wrote:George, while I think we probably all agree with you that carbon-based fuels need to be phased out for normal purposes, whether that be railways, power stations, cars or whatever, I think you're being a bit extreme with regard to historical artefacts. Working museums are very popular as a way of explaining the past by giving people a taste of it in action. Beamish Museum is a good example, or the Crofton Beam Engine, and there are quite a lot of heritage railway operations which give a similar service. By your strict standards none of these would be able to operate. Neither would the London to Brighton vintage car rally, nor the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight, both of which use old-fashioned technology which is not as clean as modern cars or planes, nor any number of other heritage events which are less than a drop in the ocean compared to the millions of petrol- and diesel-driven cars and lorries which pollute our atmosphere every day, to say nothing of modern planes, factories and power stations. I support you in trying to change those to clean renewable energy, but not in trying to suppress heritage operations, whether railway or other parts of our industrial heritage.

I mostly agree with you, John. However, heritage operations need to attract young people to survive into the future. They also need to avoid been seen as overly dirty. Even , now, if i mention steam engines to the older age group, the woman will pipe up about it getting their washing dirty. ( most laundry in NZ is still dried on an outside clothesline). I'm a motorcycle racing nut, but I cringe at the noise the Classic bikes make(they seem to be exempt from muffler rules).To me the noise takes away from the experience, the old guys love it though. Similarily , I would probably cringe at the black smoke coming from a steam engine, while older enthusiasts think it makes a great photo.
I would think running on a cleaner fuel such as lpg or wood may be a better option for steam in the future. Might save your aching back as well.!
Anyway , something to take our minds of Philip's spasms of (immoral) joy.

Thanks, David, and I don't really disagree with you. I think many of the heritage railway operations in Britain now have a big following of diesel railfans - my generation grew up with steam, but the next generation grew up with now-obsolete classes of diesel locos and DMUs. There are also preservation groups for early classes of electric locos and EMUs.

As a loco fireman I have to confess I enjoy swinging the shovel, although the mechanically-stoked and oil-fired steam locos are also a challenge in a different and slightly less physical way. A few years back Rovos Rail converted a Class 25NC to diesel-firing, with a huge noisy contraption that looked like a giant red hair dryer blocking the centre of the footplate blowing atomised diesel into the firebox, but it was a complete failure. It also had to have a diesel generator mounted on top of the tender to provide electric power for the blower. That loco has now been scrapped.

One thing firemen hate is black smoke. We're taught to fire "light and bright", with just a thin grey haze above the chimney. That's the most efficient way to fire, as black smoke is basically just unburnt (ie wasted) coal. It's the photographers who demand black smoke. He who pays the piper calls the tune, so we usually have to oblige, but it really buggers up your fire.

I know what you mean, john , I still cut firewood and drag it up out of the riverbed by hand, despite my partner saying why not buy a truckload for a couple of hundred dollars. I'm just trying to justify buying a digger i think .
Saves going to the gym too.

Incidentally, on modern steam, this story caught my eye today: in the UK the youngest mainline steam loco driver since 1968 has just qualified - see http://www.friendsoftherail.com/phpBB2/ ... 39&t=13207" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

1968 was the last year of British Rail standard gauge steam, so I'm guessing that the previous youngest one would have been a BR driver. This chap's dad was also a driver, with 49 years on the footplate.